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[15:04:45] <aclark> Morning

[15:07:05] <aclark> Building a site about Python packages: http://pythonpackages.com/ :-)

[15:15:58] <dahoste> aclark, :( it says my package has been downloaded 0 times.

[15:16:13] <aclark> dahoste: what's your package?

[15:16:18] <dahoste> I don't have one.

[15:16:24] <aclark> dahoste: well there you go ;-)

[15:16:35] <aclark> dahoste: click one someone else's :-)

[15:16:35] <dahoste> regardless, that still makes me feel very unpopular.

[15:16:45] <aclark> hah ok well open a ticket :-)

[15:17:12] <dahoste> What does the '*' after the 0 mean?

[15:17:19] <aclark> dahoste: hover over it

[15:17:46] <dahoste> aha!

[15:19:07] <dahoste> clearly, the task now is to figure out how to fake pypi downloads in order to game the pythonpackages.com leaderboard for fame and glory.

[15:19:27] <aclark> dahoste: the idea is if you are an author you can enter a package name

[15:19:40] <aclark> dahoste: if it exists, and it's downloads are hosted on pypi it will be "featured"

[15:19:48] <aclark> (under recent entries)

[15:20:00] <aclark> so the way i've been using it is:

[15:20:03] <aclark> browse: http://pythonpackages.com/pypi

[15:20:07] <aclark> for new interesting packages

[15:20:09] <aclark> then enter them

[15:21:00] <dahoste> interesting.

[15:21:33] <dahoste> does pypi not offer stats to pkg authors?

[15:22:25] <aclark> dahoste: it does, that's how the site is built (using the api)

[15:22:42] <aclark> dahoste: it doesn't offer that particular stat TTW

[15:22:46] <aclark> that's how this started

[15:22:52] <aclark> dahoste: pip install vanity

[15:23:01] <aclark> $ vanity setuptools

[15:23:06] <dahoste> roger that.

[15:23:09] <aclark> dahoste: and pip install yolk

[15:23:23] <aclark> yolk -CONFUSING_COMMAND_LINE_ARGS stats_i_want

[17:59:41] <richleland> aclark hey so yeah as soon as I sent that Jackie emailed me saying she's going to take over the group!

[17:59:59] <aclark> richleland: great!

[18:00:32] <richleland> yeah that's one less email I have to send today!

[18:06:22] <aclark> richleland: how's your new gig?

[18:06:33] <richleland> GREAT

[18:06:38] <richleland> work from home 5 days a week

[18:06:39] <aclark> COOL! :-)

[18:06:41] <aclark> yah

[18:06:44] <aclark> very cool

[18:06:56] <richleland> doing systems, back-end dev, front-end dev and design

[18:07:03] <aclark> ooo

[18:07:15] <richleland> yeah love the set up

[18:07:19] <richleland> our group is semi-autonomous

[18:08:12] <richleland> first couple of months were spent getting this launched: http://www.treehugger.com/

[18:08:34] <aclark> oh nice

[18:08:45] <richleland> now I'm working on a stats aggregation app for Discovery

[18:09:01] <richleland> it'll be all sexy with graphs and grids and shits

[18:09:21] <aclark> nice what js libs?

[18:09:33] <richleland> prob highcharts, not sure yet tho

[18:09:44] <richleland> there are some kick ass data grid js libs too

[18:10:21] <aclark> ah

[18:10:22] <aclark> yeah

[18:14:43] <aclark> richleland: added you to feb, http://meetup.dcpython.org/events/23832451/

[18:15:10] <richleland> I'm going to look into that locust library too that hazmat mentioned

[18:15:24] <richleland> could turn into a survey of python load testing tools, but we'll see

[18:15:27] <hazmat> richleland, where you at now?

[18:15:40] <richleland> Discovery, working primarily on treehugger.com

[18:15:45] <hazmat> richleland, nice

[18:16:02] <hazmat> doh

[18:16:45] <richleland> you could check out natgeo - they're always hiring people

[18:16:50] <hazmat> anybody used backbone.js ?

[18:17:02] <richleland> they have a few different groups too - main site, education, maps, etc.

[18:17:09] <richleland> all using Django

[18:18:26] <aclark> richleland: btw if we were ever to "take over" django district that doesn't necessarily mean we'd swallow it e.g. nova python. the goal is to facilitate and sustain as much activity as possible, not to genericize everything under the Python umbrella

[18:18:57] <aclark> i just jump on this stuff because i don't want to see zero activity

[18:19:22] <richleland> cool - absolutely understand - we just had some miscommunication last time so I figured I'd jump in front of that :)

[18:19:53] <richleland> totally agree with the zero activity, which is why I knew I needed to step aside

[18:20:02] <richleland> I just can't dedicate as much time as I used to

[18:20:07] <aclark> right

[18:20:12] <richleland> school, work, kids, yada yada

[18:20:23] <richleland> group deserves a more attentive leader

[18:22:11] <aclark> richleland: and our mission is to help anyone that organizes python activity. so e.g. if jackie doesn't want to pay to continue to host the meetup site we might be able to pay for it (i'm not sure how meetup billing works anymore… seems like we pay for one and organize three)

[18:22:21] <aclark> though pyladies has been covering some costs too which is awesome

[18:23:00] <richleland> nice

[18:23:02] <aclark> richleland: yeah if i didn't have a posse helping out i couldn't keep doing it

[18:23:11] <aclark> i don't attend for months, keeps me sane ;-)

[18:23:22] <richleland> indeed

[18:23:30] <richleland> sanity's probably a good thing

[18:23:53] <richleland> jumpin' off - have a good turkey day... holiday begins in 3... 2... 1....

[18:23:55] <aclark> richleland: btw we peter corbett basically achieived my dream w/#dcweek (OPENING PARTY AT 9:30 CLUB)

[18:24:00] <aclark> richleland: ciao!

[18:53:23] <kennethreitz> aclark: i laughed at your tweet earlier (re: heroku)

[18:53:51] <kennethreitz> aclark: I'm joining heroku in two weeks as the Python Evangelist

[18:54:01] <aclark> kennethreitz: ah! i figured something was going on there ;-)

[18:54:07] <kennethreitz> haha

[18:54:19] <aclark> cool, congrats!

[18:54:55] <kennethreitz> thank you sir

[18:57:15] <hazmat> kennethreitz, you staying in the area?

[18:57:36] <kennethreitz> I live in the area

[18:57:39] <kennethreitz> well, winchester

[18:57:51] <hazmat> kennethreitz, yeah.. just heroku is san fran based afacir

[18:57:59] <kennethreitz> i'll be remote

[18:58:02] <hazmat> cool

[18:58:20] <hazmat> i've been trying to figure out the delta on cloud foundry vs heroku

[18:58:31] <hazmat> for deploying python apps, i'll ask again in two weeks ;-)

[18:59:46] <kennethreitz> well i've been using it quite a bit

[18:59:50] <kennethreitz> ask away :)

[19:27:04] <aclark> it's great for deploying vain cheese to the clouds

[19:35:39] <hazmat> the price per process model seems a bit extreme to me.. is there a mem limit on a process?

[19:35:59] <hazmat> i recall its all lxc under the hood, so probably memset cgroup which allows bursting

[19:36:39] <hazmat> kennethreitz, i'm more curious in the context of comparison to cloud foundry, which basically offers the same notion of paas automation, if you deploy the paas

[19:37:38] <hazmat> kennethreitz, perhaps the better question... what does heroku offer to someone who's competent at setting up a linux box?

[19:38:23] <hazmat> a multi node cache/router? with hot failover db?

[19:38:26] <hazmat> er. warm

[19:42:12] <kennethreitz> sorry didn't see you there :0

[19:42:23] <kennethreitz> hazmat: correct, all soft limits, unless crazy

[19:42:39] <kennethreitz> i believe each dyno gets 512 mb or ram

[19:43:20] <kennethreitz> you setup your procfile, which is your list or processes

[19:43:32] <kennethreitz> and when you push, it gets deployed to a bunch of boxes

[19:43:39] <kennethreitz> and you tell it how many you want to run

[19:44:08] <kennethreitz> 'herou scale web=100', and you suddenly have 100, independent instances of your application, all running and load balanced automatically

[19:44:47] <kennethreitz> esentially you'd have to do a *lot* of working to do that yourself on top of ec2

[19:44:57] <kennethreitz> esp taking into consideration how faulty ec2 is

[19:45:01] <kennethreitz> they handle all of that

[19:46:42] <aclark> they also explain it (or try to) here: http://www.heroku.com/how

[19:46:44] <kennethreitz> hazmat ^^

[19:47:56] <kennethreitz> it's quite beautiful actually

[19:48:05] <kennethreitz> and you don't have to build your application *for* heroku

[19:48:18] <kennethreitz> all configuration is done through environment variables and such

[19:48:19] <aclark> kennethreitz: that's what i hate about GAE

[19:48:19] <kennethreitz> very clean

[19:48:26] <kennethreitz> aclark: yeah, it's horrid

[19:48:30] <kennethreitz> GAE is the bane of my existance

[19:48:35] <aclark> hah

[19:48:41] <kennethreitz> worst idea ever

[19:48:45] <kennethreitz> well, good for 2007 maybe

[19:49:26] <hazmat> kennethreitz, not sure that really answers the compare to cloud foundry.. but ignoring that for a moment, how do you get app conn information for things like the pg db?

[19:49:30] <aclark> kennethreitz: so can i run pythonpackages.com (pyramid/redis) on heroku without changing any of teh codes?

[19:49:49] <kennethreitz> absolutely

[19:50:05] <kennethreitz> hazmat: what do you mean

[19:50:40] <hazmat> ironic..

[19:50:47] <kennethreitz> hazmat: 'heroku run bash'

[19:50:57] <kennethreitz> and you can do whatever you want :)

[19:51:04] <kennethreitz> close the session, and it's gone

[19:51:07] <kennethreitz> it's beautiful

[19:51:12] <hazmat> kennethreitz, ah.. heroku injects the settings

[19:51:15] <hazmat> ic

[19:51:24] <kennethreitz> hazmat: for the database? yeahn

[19:51:28] <kennethreitz> only for django though

[19:51:45] <hazmat> kennethreitz, me too.. hence the ironic..

[19:51:48] <kennethreitz> :)

[19:51:54] <kennethreitz> the flask example is much easier

[19:51:57] <hazmat> kennethreitz, so say i don't have a django app.. how do i get the db settings?

[19:52:05] <hazmat> and what happens if the primary db goes down?

[19:52:07] <kennethreitz> aclark: it'll run any wsgi app

[19:52:12] <hazmat> kennethreitz, nevermind the last

[19:52:15] <kennethreitz> hazmat: environment variables

[19:52:16] <hazmat> its an elastic ip

[19:52:17] <hazmat> k

[19:52:39] <hazmat> kennethreitz, is that documented.. http://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/python

[19:52:42] <kennethreitz> hazmat: you can use any db provider, obviously, but the managed postgres is supposed to be super solid

[19:52:54] <kennethreitz> they're hiring me for a reason ;)

[19:53:03] <hazmat> indeed ;-)

[19:53:11] <kennethreitz> everything's an environment variable

[19:53:16] <kennethreitz> even the settings they inject

[19:53:18] <kennethreitz> just read from that

[19:53:33] <kennethreitz> 'heroku config' just dumps out the configurations

[19:53:43] <hazmat> kennethreitz, when you say you mean you can use any db provider, you mean you can use anything you choose to manage yourself or get via a non heroku 3rd party

[19:53:56] <hazmat> else if you want the same management platform its postgres

[19:53:57] <hazmat> ?

[19:54:10] <kennethreitz> they don't force you to do anything

[19:54:36] <hazmat> kennethreitz, sure.. but then your spinning up your own db or using a separate 3rd party

[19:54:47] <kennethreitz> RDS is a good option

[19:54:54] <kennethreitz> Amazon RDS

[19:54:56] <aclark> purdy: https://addons.heroku.com/

[19:54:59] <kennethreitz> they have an addon for it actually

[19:55:05] <kennethreitz> but you could just connect yourself, as you would with any application

[19:55:17] <kennethreitz> addons just set environment variables

[19:55:34] <kennethreitz> add the redis addon, you have a redis url in your env

[19:55:43] <kennethreitz> it's quite beautiful

[19:55:46] <kennethreitz> some of them are more powerful

[19:55:52] <hazmat> hmm. the addons page has exploded in the last year

[19:55:55] <aclark> they have ALL THE ADD-ONS

[19:55:57] <kennethreitz> the heroku scheduler is pretty much cron

[19:55:59] <aclark> (sorry)

[19:56:02] <kennethreitz> it's really elegant

[19:56:03] <kennethreitz> i love it

[19:56:06] <kennethreitz> aclark; hehe

[19:56:38] <aclark> kennethreitz: your description of it is pimp-tastic! :-)

[19:56:44] <hazmat> they've basically enabled an ecosystem by not doing more there

[19:56:58] <kennethreitz> hazmat: they also make billing transparent

[19:57:09] <kennethreitz> e.g. you pay for redis to go through your heroku bill

[19:57:12] <kennethreitz> it's a good system

[19:58:06] <hazmat> kennethreitz, it is.. i've now some of the founders

[19:58:10] <hazmat> s/know

[19:58:17] <hazmat> also met some of the ops folks at surge con

[19:58:23] <kennethreitz> awesome

[19:58:28] <kennethreitz> Adam?

[19:58:34] <hazmat> kennethreitz, and orion

[19:58:49] <kennethreitz> don't think i've met him yet

[19:59:14] <kennethreitz> craigkerstiens works there too

[19:59:16] <hazmat> i met adam and orion when i lived out in la.. a long time ago, in a far away place ;-)

[19:59:27] <kennethreitz> i'm selling hazmat on heroku

[19:59:49] <hazmat> but i'm curious to know though if cloud foundry did ec2 well, what's the benefit

[20:00:07] <hazmat> the billing equation goes away, the available service equation is more integrated

[20:00:10] <kennethreitz> i'm not too familiar with cloud foundry to be honest

[20:00:28] <hazmat> fair enough

[20:00:36] <kennethreitz> I try to avoid vmware :)

[20:00:50] <kennethreitz> I think it's baed on stackato

[20:00:53] <hazmat> kennethreitz, that's okay.. i try to avoid propreitary software

[20:00:55] <kennethreitz> which i was testing, and ugh

[20:01:03] <kennethreitz> it was a bad experience

[20:01:04] <hazmat> kennethreitz, other way around.. stackato is based on cloudfoundry

[20:01:12] <kennethreitz> prob a better approach for enterprise stuff though

[20:01:15] <kennethreitz> ah

[20:01:38] <hazmat> stackato is commercial afaik, they upstream some stuff like py/wsgi support into cloud foundry

[20:01:39] <kennethreitz> the stackato alpha program was *bad*

[20:01:50] <kennethreitz> i got hounded with emails begging for feedback

[20:01:55] <hazmat> ugh..

[20:01:57] <kennethreitz> had to run it in a vm

[20:02:00] <kennethreitz> it was useless

[20:02:11] <kennethreitz> ah gotcha

[20:02:19] <kennethreitz> phpfog, er appfog runs on the stack too i think

[20:02:23] <hazmat> indeed

[20:02:36] <hazmat> the beauty and peril of opensource

[20:03:18] <hazmat> the djangozoom guys are considering switching out to stackato

[20:03:34] <kennethreitz> i do love ep.io though

[20:03:44] <hazmat> better density (via lxc), more core platform activity

[20:03:45] <kennethreitz> before heroku's python came out, i was *all* over epio

[20:04:03] <kennethreitz> i don't want to run django, i want to run wsgi

[20:04:33] <hazmat> kennethreitz, does heroku devops do chef or puppet?

[20:04:55] <aclark> chef vs. puppet is the new emacs vs. vi

[20:04:57] <hazmat> aclark, too dam busy

[20:04:59] <kennethreitz> not sure

[20:05:05] <hazmat> aclark, they both loose ;-0)

[20:05:09] <aclark> hah

[20:05:09] <kennethreitz> i think chef though

[20:05:16] <aclark> enough

[20:05:19] <hazmat> makes more sense for ec2

[20:05:21] <hazmat> chef that is

[20:05:24] <kennethreitz> i didn't have much luck with chef

[20:05:36] <kennethreitz> i've been told by many that i should def try puppet though

[20:05:45] <hazmat> it requires more intimate ruby knowledge.. puppet is pretty simple

[20:05:59] <kennethreitz> heroku makes that a non-req though :)

[20:06:17] <hazmat> indeed

[20:07:17] <hazmat> the chef guys had some folks at a pycon booth

[20:07:21] <hazmat> which i appreicate

[20:07:37] <kennethreitz> yeah, that's why i ended up trying it actually :)

[20:09:56] <hazmat> i've been working for a little while on democratizing deployments

[20:10:14] <hazmat> opensource, any services to plugin, any language

[20:10:18] <hazmat> to write the plugins

[20:10:33] <hazmat> http://juju.ubuntu.com

[20:10:59] <hazmat> and deployable locally, baremetal, or the cloud (private/public)

[20:11:42] <hazmat> i put together a quick website to showcase some of the available services/plugins.. http://charms.kapilt.com/charms

[20:12:31] <hazmat> scaling them a complex 3 or 4 tier structure is as simple as a single cli

[20:13:01] <hazmat> still early though.. heroku is interesting.. its definitely got mindshare and useability

[20:13:46] <hazmat> although i see lots of cloud foundry and openstack usage as well

[20:14:40] <kennethreitz> hazmat: love the site

[20:14:43] <hazmat> but obviously targeting different audiences

[20:14:47] <hazmat> kennethreitz, pyramid and mongodb

[20:14:50] <kennethreitz> auite

[20:14:54] <kennethreitz> *quite

[20:14:55] <hazmat> + the obvious bootstrap ;-)

[20:15:09] <kennethreitz> i love ubuntu design

[20:15:20] <kennethreitz> i can't live without Ubuntu Mono now

[20:15:29] <hazmat> it rocks.. good to have nice fonts

[20:15:36] <hazmat> monospaced that is

[20:15:40] <kennethreitz> i'm oddly passionate about monospaced fonts

[20:15:49] <kennethreitz> since i stare at them for 20 hours a day

[21:02:53] <TheCowboy> start a start-up that specializes in finding technical co-founders

[21:03:04] <hazmat> TheCowboy, i think they haz those already

[21:03:17] <hazmat> but more competition means more success ;-)

[21:11:01] <aclark> yo dawg i heard you like co founders so i got you a co founder to co found your start up with you while you co found your start up

[21:25:50] <j00bar> aclark: if you do start such a business (even a side business) i've got the perfect cofounder for you.

[21:26:29] <j00bar> insanely well connected, totally humble about it, personality not terribly unlike yours, and in general underutilized.

[21:31:46] <TheCowboy> cofound.ly is available

[21:31:48] <aclark> j00bar: you've got a good biz guy? sure i'll take him.

[21:32:49] <aclark> The best biz guy is the one not looking for a technical co founder! :-)

[21:35:50] <aclark> Impressive download count, if you are in to that sort of thing ;-) http://pythonpackages.com/pypi/feincms

[21:49:47] <hazmat> kennethreitz, does requests do openid client auth?

[21:49:56] <kennethreitz> it does not

[21:50:03] <kennethreitz> that's actually the first request i've seen for that :)

[21:50:07] <kennethreitz> ever

[21:50:16] <hazmat> there's always a first ;-)

[21:50:18] <kennethreitz> i assume it's pretty simple

[21:50:36] <hazmat> its a dance.. but should be

[21:50:42] <kennethreitz> oauth will likely land before openid

[23:35:47] <aclark> kennethreitz: add ALL THE AUTHs

[23:36:11] <kennethreitz> aclark: send ALL THE PULL REQUESTS

[23:36:17] <aclark> hah

[23:36:22] <aclark> touché

[23:47:57] <papna_> This channel has a high meme-to-signal ratio.

[23:59:49] <aclark> papna_: no doubt

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#dcpython logs for Tuesday the 22nd of November, 2011