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[16:28:21] <aclark> kennethreitz: any chance heroku would be interesting in supporting buildout?

[19:42:34] <kennethreitz> aclark: absolutely not :)

[19:43:00] <kennethreitz> what is this, 2005? :P

[20:02:43] <aclark> kennethreitz: for this… you will pay… a terrible price ;-) Seriously though, see my tools rant: http://pythonpackages-docs.readthedocs.org/en/latest/build.html#buildout-easy-install-vs-virtualenv-pip You guys should support it, or at least consider the logistics

[20:03:14] <aclark> kennethreitz: it does not mutually exclude pip, it's on top of pip (more or less)

[20:19:25] <kennethreitz> aclark: what can you not accomplish with pip?

[20:20:43] <kennethreitz> (serious question)

[20:30:18] <aclark> kennethreitz: buildout supports ini-style config with pluggable recipes, so there is a huge ecosystem there to support (not that heroku necessarily wants to be in that biz). for a concrete answer look at plone, not sure how many folks will be able to handle this method: http://pythonpackages.com/info/isotoma.plone.heroku

[20:30:54] <aclark> kennethreitz: if you supported it i think you'd see a lot of people trying to use it, though there could certainly be a control issue (i.e not wanting to allow people to do "too much" on heroku)

[20:32:17] <kennethreitz> aclark: that doesn't answer my question

[20:32:31] <kennethreitz> aclark: I know all about buildout. But what can you not accomplish with pip?

[20:41:07] <aclark> kennethreitz: well i'm trying to answer without generalizing around plone which currently uses plone but may not always. if you know all about it then you already know what you can't accomplish, they are different tools. I can't write ini-style configs, i can't build configs from templates, I can't build non-python software, etc.

[20:41:19] <aclark> s/uses plone/uses buildout/

[20:41:55] <kennethreitz> aclark: if you really want it, you can write a custom build pack

[20:42:08] <kennethreitz> https://github.com/heroku/heroku-buildpack-python

[20:42:35] <aclark> kennethreitz: ah! thanks

[20:42:44] <kennethreitz> aclark: I think it's a terrible idea though :)

[20:42:55] <aclark> kennethreitz: clearly

[20:42:56] <kennethreitz> then again, i think plone is too, hehe :)

[20:43:19] <aclark> plone is plone

[20:43:23] <kennethreitz> indeed

[20:43:45] <kennethreitz> is that your project?

[20:43:47] <kennethreitz> the plone.heroku thing

[20:43:49] <kennethreitz> it's out of date

[20:44:02] <aclark> no, isotoma (company in uk)

[20:44:57] <kennethreitz> "It takes a long time to deploy 200+ eggs and heroku probably thinks your deployment has gone

[20:44:57] <kennethreitz> wrong and times out

[20:45:00] <kennethreitz> wtf

[20:45:02] <kennethreitz> why

[20:45:03] <kennethreitz> ever

[20:45:04] <kennethreitz> why

[20:45:18] <kennethreitz> it has 200 dependencies!?

[20:47:05] <aclark> kennethreitz: at some point people went nuts with namespace packages

[20:47:20] <aclark> kennethreitz: so we have way too many plone.* and plone.app.* packages

[20:47:54] <aclark> kennethreitz: not to mention Zope2 and it's dependencies on what is now called the Zope Toolkit (aka a bunch zope.* and zope.app.* packages)

[20:48:12] <kennethreitz> namespace packages are always a bad idea :)

[20:50:40] <kennethreitz> I literally will never understand why people do this :)

[20:50:47] <kennethreitz> it's like java

[21:17:09] <kennethreitz> aclark: can you make/show me a repo that would be ready for buildout?

[21:17:18] <kennethreitz> would be an interesting extremely unofficial buildpack to make