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[10:04:21] <iElectric> aclark: ping

[13:02:16] <aclark> iElectric: pong

[13:02:53] <iElectric> aclark: sent you an email

[13:05:15] <iElectric> aclark: if you can apply that and test on windows, that would *rock*

[13:06:00] <aclark> iElectric: thanks! i'll do it this week sometime

[13:20:30] <iElectric> aclark: great :)

[13:31:26] <MattBowen> redir: !

[13:31:34] <redir> MattBowen!

[13:31:46] <MattBowen> i just heard a surprising rumor about you and a big city

[13:32:08] <aclark> hah

[13:32:24] <redir> Yeah different borough but that is the plan

[13:32:35] <MattBowen> that is good for you, but bad for DC

[13:32:41] <aclark> well, i told him NY

[13:33:11] <redir> yeah, I don't thingk I could do manhattan. I mean I could, but meh

[13:33:14] <aclark> redir: You are moving to the home of the late, great MCA

[13:33:29] <redir> And El-P

[13:33:34] <redir> and a few million other folks

[13:33:47] <MattBowen> every living writer, from my survey of the backs of books

[13:34:04] <redir> hah

[13:35:00] <redir> we are looking at a place here: http://goo.gl/maps/7uao8

[13:37:25] <aclark> hah http://youtu.be/OZptOs8Gu9k (never heard of El-P before)

[13:37:44] <MattBowen> oh man El-P is great

[13:37:51] <aclark> redir: oh nice

[13:39:10] <aclark> man that squirrel is throwing down

[13:40:14] <redir> I was listening to him on the train coming back monday eve. Amazing...

[13:41:57] <redir> I like the neighborhood up there

[14:24:59] <iElectric> J1m: buildout runs develop scripts by forking on each run, is that really necessary?

[14:25:43] <J1m> yes

[14:25:50] <iElectric> pff, activaing zc.* namespace takes 5.8 seconds out of 26sec of buildout run

[14:26:26] <J1m> Because a setup script can modify the Python environment in arbitrary ways.

[14:29:37] <iElectric> isn't it just "python setup.py develop"?

[14:29:45] <iElectric> that should be called only once

[14:29:51] <iElectric> maybe there is more to it?

[14:33:46] <J1m> iElectric, "python setup.py develop" implies a fork. You asked why forking was necessary.

[16:04:30] <iElectric> J1m: I asked why it is needed to be executed everytime

[16:04:43] <iElectric> I'll see if it can be improved, but most probably not :)

[16:17:09] <J1m> iElectric, It needs to be executed every time because we don't know if anything has changed.

[16:23:11] <iElectric> J1m: it is supposed to create symlinks in 99% of cases

[16:24:51] <J1m> Assuming I know what you're asking, it should create symlinks in 100% of cases.

[16:29:27] <iElectric> it is supposed to *only create symlinks in 99% of cases

[16:29:47] <J1m> I have no idea what you're asking.

[16:34:30] <iElectric> J1m: I'm saying "python setup.py develop" by default only creates symlinks

[16:35:50] <J1m> The develop command also builds out the package internally.

[16:36:26] <J1m> This may involve recompiling extensions or doing other weirder things called for by the setup script.

[16:37:18] <J1m> This should all happen internally to the project directory where the setup script is.

[16:37:34] <J1m> Externally, it should just create a symlink.

[16:37:53] <iElectric> we could check if it has extensions and run it in that case

[16:38:10] <J1m> But it's not enough for buildout to just create a symlink instead of invoking the setup script.

[16:38:31] <J1m> No, because the setup script can do other things we're not aware of.

[16:38:47] <J1m> bbl

[16:39:27] <iElectric> good point, but running setup.py should not have any side effects and anyone relying on that is crazy

[16:39:52] <iElectric> and it's not buildout job to solve that

[16:40:24] <iElectric> J1m: also interesting fact is that 30sec long buildout takes 5 seconds to setup zc.* namespace

[16:41:03] <iElectric> might be a good reason to drop it :)

[17:45:17] <J1m> iElectric, these aren't necessarily side effects. It's not in buildout's interest to be incompatible with people's setup files.

[17:45:51] <J1m> I also don't know what you're referring to be "setup zc.* namespace".

[17:45:58] <J1m> I also don't know what you're referring to by: "setup zc.* namespace".

[17:54:39] <iElectric> setuptools namespace for all packages in zc.*

[17:55:20] <iElectric> so: https://github.com/buildout/buildout/blob/master/src/zc/__init__.py

[18:03:52] <J1m> I find it hard to believe that that code takes 5 seconds. Although, I must admit that running an empty buildout does take longer than I would expect.

[18:04:30] <J1m> well, actually no.

[18:05:58] <J1m> so for me, it takes <.2 seconds of cpu to run an empty buildout with -N, so, I have a hard time believing that the namespace setup takes that much time.

[18:07:25] <J1m> iElectric, ^^

[20:54:17] <iElectric> J1m: maybe there is something that triggers that, will investigate

[21:19:23] <TheCowboy> I found a place that is willing to host meetings if one hasn't been found yet

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#dcpython logs for Wednesday the 8th of August, 2012