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[12:21:25] <J1m_> aclark, I can come to Bethesda some weekend or Silver Spring some weekend.

[12:35:56] <aclark> J1m_: cool

[12:48:14] <aclark> this buildout wheel thing… i think the first step would be to support installation from wheels like you said. so if I'm using p.r.zope2instance and i say "eggs = Pillow" and I'm on a mac, I get a Pillow wheel from PyPI. Then it should do this: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0427/#installing-a-wheel-distribution-1-0-py32-none-any-whl

[12:48:18] <aclark> J1m_: ^

[12:52:49] <J1m_> aclark, that says to install into site packages.

[12:52:59] <J1m_> unless I'm misunderstanding.

[12:53:16] <aclark> yeah

[12:53:43] <J1m_> an incremental thing would be on the fly wheel to egg conversion.

[12:53:55] <aclark> well, bottom line is eggs are importable and wheels are not so kind of a disconnect there

[12:53:58] <aclark> right

[12:54:05] <aclark> that strikes me as silly-ish though

[12:54:13] <J1m_> in the long run, I think we need to consider buildout3 built on venv and pip.

[12:54:13] <aclark> not sure

[12:54:18] <aclark> right

[12:55:44] <J1m_> I think wheels are a bit of a step backward, but I don't have the energy(interest?) to fight that battle.

[12:56:46] <J1m_> I think the idea of mixing the installation of many things in a single directory is a primitive and broken model.

[12:57:02] <aclark> well they are forward in that they are standards based and simple. zip file + metadata. and you don't need to "execute them" like an sdist. that's a plus.

[12:57:17] <aclark> but backwards in that you lose some features

[12:57:58] <J1m_> I have no problem with making source distros meta-data rather than script-based.

[12:58:09] <J1m_> That's an entirely different issue.

[12:58:28] <J1m_> Both eggs and wheels are zip files with meta data.

[12:58:47] <J1m_> The demonization of eggs was a political act.

[12:59:04] <J1m_> It was missinformed and missleading, at best.

[12:59:56] <aclark> Right

[13:00:28] <J1m_> Life is too short for this BS.