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[19:42:33] <kallisti5> before I commit to rewrite our database backend per legal advice, any chances that the new license is going away?

[19:44:48] <synthmeat> no affiliated with them in any way, but i doubt it'll go away, they're doubling down on only them providing it as service. out of curiosity, why is this a legal problem?

[19:47:04] <kallisti5> synthmeat: pretty much, we have a web portal using MongoDB as a backend where we resell services (containers, vm's, etc)

[19:47:14] <kallisti5> any of these could "be mongodb"

[19:47:40] <kallisti5> it's not a clear violation, but a pretty gray area.

[19:47:57] <synthmeat> yeah, was about to say exactly that.

[19:48:10] <kallisti5> enough that we're like 20% complete with the user / session management

[19:48:24] <synthmeat> eh, early enough

[19:48:25] <kallisti5> descision is to go with something else "less gray"

[19:48:41] <kallisti5> but, that's quite a few man-hours lost.

[19:48:49] <kallisti5> so a little annoyed at MongoDB :-)

[19:49:37] <kallisti5> Things were going great with MongoDB... so yeah

[19:49:48] <kallisti5> It's all written in Rust, and the crate works well

[19:51:18] <synthmeat> did you contact the mongodb people directly? i'd advise doing so before rewriting everything.

[19:51:39] <edrocks> kallisti5 what's the issue with the new license? Wasn't the big change targeted at people reselling hosted mongodb?

[19:52:20] <kallisti5> edrocks: if we resell services where mongodb could be run by customers.. there really isn't any language which says we aren't "reselling MongoDB"

[19:53:04] <synthmeat> kallisti5: have you considered using a single sharded/relicated mongo for all your customers?

[19:53:43] <kallisti5> synthmeat: yeah... but it's all just opening a startup to trouble down the road.

[19:54:04] <edrocks> kallisti5 does that really count if you are just selling hardware? Everything I've read about it was to go against people making *mongodb management* software required to run the reselling op

[19:54:05] <kallisti5> I have no guarentees that MongoDB won't try other weird license issues down the road

[19:54:37] <edrocks> kallisti5 iirc can't you just buy an enterprise license worse case?

[19:55:01] <kallisti5> edrocks: well.. we have a portal using mongodb as a backend where customers can order vm's or containers which could be running mongodb

[19:55:03] <synthmeat> that too

[19:55:04] <edrocks> or do they force open sourcing your mangement software?

[19:55:18] <kallisti5> ^^ that's the fear

[19:55:39] <edrocks> kallisti5 the joys of microservices are a nice hack around that :)

[19:55:59] <kallisti5> also, if we were going to pay MongoDB, then would we have to pay for every "customer that decides to launch a Mongodb container"?

[19:56:16] <edrocks> honestly you should probably just talk to them

[19:56:45] <kallisti5> I have unofficially... just gotten groans and "well, that use case isn't the target for the license"

[19:57:05] <edrocks> also the license was for software management mongodb deployements. It doesn't matter if you use mongodb to store your management data

[19:57:27] <edrocks> aka they have you anyways

[19:58:14] <kallisti5> lol. I think we're just going to go something less NoSQL like ScyllaDB

[19:58:37] <kallisti5> performance is good, and there are two major Cassandra compatible implementations

[19:58:47] <kallisti5> The code with NoSQL was awesome though

[19:59:01] <synthmeat> yeah, i love it

[19:59:13] <edrocks> have you considered just using tried and true postgres instead of some random new db released 3 years ago?

[19:59:50] <kallisti5> edrocks: I've done cassandra for a few years, not having Java is a big plus

[20:00:11] <edrocks> I'd push harder on your mongodb contact. I wouldn't rewrite because one sales person is a pain

[20:00:28] <edrocks> up to you but good luck

[20:00:30] <synthmeat> you're not going to be too happy with alternatives if you don't like java. that was my cursory glance at least.

[20:01:02] <kallisti5> The open-source fan side of me also hates it, but trying to keep the descision business based. Thanks for confirming this stuff for me :-) I don't want to draw it out in this channel since it's turning pretty off-topic.

[20:02:26] <sleepingforest> are there any phpmyadmin like admin web UIs for mongo? I tried mongo-express which is nice, but im curious if there are possibly more mature solutions

[20:04:09] <edrocks> sleepingforest mongodb offers a desktop for viewing data. I think it's called compass

[20:04:54] <edrocks> There is also mms service for realtime backups/optional deployment management if you buy through them. We run it just for backups on a self managed replicaset

[20:09:08] <synthmeat> edrocks: how does that work? "realtime backups"?

[20:09:16] <synthmeat> what does that actually mean?

[20:09:44] <edrocks> sleepingforest point in time recovery with snapshot(aka regular full database backup) at given time intervals ie every 4 hour

[20:10:31] <edrocks> you run an agent program which connects to your replica set, then it follows the oplog(lists every single change to the database) to keep a point in time recovery for some time period + the full backups

[20:10:54] <edrocks> point in time recovery means you can pick any second and revert back to it. It actually goes down to per command

[20:10:56] <synthmeat> i keep hidden replica on (xfs) where i run mongodump with oplog every hour plus fs snapshot every day :/

[20:11:54] <edrocks> that's same idea this just has a nice ui to pick your recovery and is offsite/network er atleast in a different enough place you are less likely to screwup and accidentatlly delete too

[20:12:22] <edrocks> you can implement it all your self pretty easily with mongodump. The only pain is managing the point in time oplog stuff

[20:12:47] <edrocks> they are pretty expensive for backups too so if you have a bit of data might not be that good but it is pretty rock solid

[20:27:02] <sleepingforest> edrocks, neat. ill check it out. i was aiming for a web UI to eliminate people needing to download software, but if its better than any web ui, its worth it