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[08:04:29] <Ivo> agronholm: were you working on Paste currently?

[08:04:29] <Ivo> I was wondering if there's an active effort to get a python 3 compatible release of it, or not

[13:39:08] <ionelmc> dstufft: around?

[13:47:47] <agronholm> Ivo: no

[13:48:01] <agronholm> Ivo: I regret porting paste deploy

[13:48:10] <agronholm> I thought I was going to need it

[13:48:15] <Ivo> lol

[13:48:39] <agronholm> the whole stack should be abandoned

[13:49:00] <Ivo> agronholm: I saw you'd got some commits into the repo semi recently

[13:49:33] <agronholm> Ivo: impossible

[13:50:17] <agronholm> Ivo: which repo is this?

[13:50:40] <Ivo> https://bitbucket.org/ianb/pastedeploy/commits/all

[13:51:14] <agronholm> ah, semi-recently means 2013 :)

[13:51:29] <agronholm> it was just a rollup of several accumulate bug fixes

[13:51:42] <agronholm> felt it was my responsibility as maintainer to at least do that much

[13:51:51] <agronholm> but really, I want to get rid of the project

[13:51:56] <agronholm> I have no use for it

[13:58:25] <Ivo> ionelmc: did you ever try locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL, ('en_US', 'UTF-8')) ?

[13:58:34] <Ivo> referring to http://blog.ionelmc.ro/2014/06/19/just-another-day-using-python-3/

[13:58:53] <ionelmc> i think i tried that, lemme check agian

[13:59:13] <ionelmc> ah yes, locale.Error: unsupported locale setting :)

[13:59:31] <Ivo> goddamn windows

[13:59:49] <agronholm> I blame the framework for making assumptions about encoding

[13:59:52] <ionelmc> oh yes, i've tried to call the winapi directly, GetACP value doesn't change :|

[14:00:12] <agronholm> when opening a file in text mode, the encoding should always be explicitly given

[14:01:21] <agronholm> where is the open() call in question?

[14:01:29] <Ivo> in pytest somewhere

[14:01:30] <ionelmc> can't disagree, but here i think python might be at fault: it should either disallow open without encoding or have an 'escape hatch'

[14:01:34] <ionelmc> some internals

[14:02:02] <Ivo> I've seen exactly the same bug hit ruby fwiw

[14:02:03] <ionelmc> it can be fixed, i'll make a pr later

[14:02:21] <ionelmc> but i think it's a common problem

[14:03:00] <Ivo> Well, "use the system encoding" *sounds* like it should be perfectly sensible

[14:03:11] <Ivo> A lot of the time it is

[14:03:12] <agronholm> java does that too IIRC

[14:03:22] <Ivo> until you try to run things in Windows cmd.exe

[14:05:43] <agronholm> ionelmc: the underlying problem is ppl not thinking about unicode

[14:09:14] <Ivo> ionelmc: have you tried chcp before running it?

[14:09:23] <ionelmc> yeah

[14:09:26] <ionelmc> Ivo: https://gist.github.com/ionelmc/176d66872d5fb5475256

[14:09:42] <ionelmc> damn windows :)

[14:10:56] <ionelmc> i've tried to use linux as a desktop, gave up every time, it sucked, broke after updates

[14:12:59] <agronholm> I use it every day

[14:13:06] <agronholm> it's far from ideal

[14:13:30] <agronholm> but I'm not going the apple route, and Windows doesn't appeal to me either

[14:14:50] <Ivo> ionelmc, agronholm: http://pastie.org/9311507 lines 283-285

[14:15:26] <ionelmc> wooot

[14:15:31] <Ivo> thanks, microsoft.

[14:16:49] <Ivo> Makes perfect sense to say UTF-8 isn't a valid code page

[14:17:22] <agronholm> that's not the real problem here

[14:23:32] <ionelmc> well, cp65001 should be a code page right?

[14:40:50] <Ivo> interesting discussion about changing open's behaviour here http://grokbase.com/t/python/python-dev/116w24gdra/open-set-the-default-encoding-to-utf-8-in-python-3-3

[14:41:49] <Ivo> The major argument for keeping current "guess-it" behaviour is that if it changes, it will break all other windows programs that also use windows behaviour (expecting BOM, ANSI, console expecting OEM, etc)

[14:41:54] <Ivo> :(

[16:18:36] <ionelmc> Ivo: interesting, however they did not consider having a PYTHONPREFERREDENCODING env var to override this

[16:18:40] <ionelmc> or something like that

[16:18:56] <ionelmc> should i ask this on python-dev? or python-ideas?!

[16:33:43] <Ivo> python-ideas might be friendlier...

[16:53:08] <ionelmc> if only i could post there ... i get automatic rejection

[16:53:14] <ionelmc> i hate mailing lists

[17:01:28] <Ivo> ionelmc: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-ideas

[17:01:42] <Ivo> (not that I love them, but that's how you join)

[17:03:21] <ionelmc> dooooooh ! :)

[17:03:36] <ionelmc> i posted through google groups :P

[17:12:28] <ionelmc> Ivo: did the post get through now?

[18:41:13] <Ivo> ionelmc: again, you can just check the web interface https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-ideas/2014-June/028150.html