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[09:22:32] <ronny> dstufft: is there any sane way to make pip install --target take already exiting packages into account?

[09:56:44] <ronny> hmm, oh, there isnt

[13:53:35] <lifeless> ronny: hi

[13:53:49] <ronny> hi lifeless

[13:53:55] <lifeless> ronny: are you working on / do you have a patch up for setuptools disabling easy-install ?

[13:55:50] <ronny> lifeless: i killed a few faled attempts (without the right pov the machinery is incredibly tricky, instead i created whl.setup as a experiment to remove the need to pass setup_requires to the setuptools setup call

[14:07:01] <lifeless> ronny: ok, cool - I didn't want to double up.

[14:07:09] <lifeless> ronny: I will put something together in the next couple weeks

[14:07:19] <lifeless> gotta go now, breakfast time

[14:09:03] <ronny> lifeless: by now im mainly interested in gettingg alternative build systems into pip and getting rid of setuptools alltogether,

[14:09:49] <ronny> lifeless: having a dayjob thats unrelated to packaging is a major impediment to doign packaging work

[15:17:18] <agronholm> ronny: are there any design docs I could look at?

[15:17:30] <agronholm> of the gumby elf or whatever system you're building

[15:18:21] <ronny> agronholm: gumby elf has no design docs atm, im mostly doing some explorative hacking since the initial 3 designs i came up with pretty much failed the test of hitting practice

[15:18:45] <agronholm> I'm doing pretty much the same with my new framework

[15:19:00] <ronny> agronholm: you mean that web framework?

[15:19:12] <ronny> what oes it currently do?

[15:19:15] <agronholm> it's not a web framework, it's a generic server application framework

[15:19:30] <agronholm> though a web application type is something I'm also working on

[15:20:05] <agronholm> it provides a launcher and extension/resource management system

[15:20:11] <agronholm> that's the core

[15:20:48] <agronholm> I'm planning on providing three application types before I go public with anything: web, wamp and an IRC bot

[15:21:17] <agronholm> the great thing about this is that you can run different types of apps in the same process and have them interact with each other

[15:21:29] <agronholm> I recall twisted had a name for this type of thing

[15:45:49] <ronny> agronholm: wamp?

[15:46:26] <agronholm> Web Application Message Protocol

[15:46:33] <agronholm> a websockets subprotocol providing RPC and pub+sub

[15:46:58] <agronholm> http://wamp.ws/

[15:47:08] <ronny> ah, that thing, as if web socket on its own wasnt bad enough ^^

[15:47:13] <agronholm> bad?

[15:47:16] <agronholm> it's great

[15:49:39] <ronny> agronholm: its basically the messy rotten variant of what 2 way chunked transfer encoding of messages would have done - because then http2 could have given it a nice binary stream variant as well

[15:50:30] <agronholm> ronny: WAMP is the best rpc/pub+sub system I've come across

[15:50:44] <agronholm> in that it also works with web browsers

[15:51:18] <agronholm> you seem keen on shooting it down -- do you know something better?

[15:54:48] <ronny> the whole problem with the web world is that they invent worse standards than already existing better standards on regular basis

[15:55:10] <agronholm> what do you feel is wrong with websockets then?

[15:55:21] <agronholm> and is there something else I should be using instead?

[15:56:05] <ronny> agronholm: well, the whole framing could have been done by 2 way chunked transfer (which is the exact mechanism thats used for the one way event streams now)

[15:57:29] <agronholm> what good is this information if there's nothing better?

[15:57:40] <agronholm> I can't influence web standards

[16:00:07] <ronny> hmm

[16:00:46] <ronny> somehow nobody seems to even try

[16:01:03] <agronholm> I have to work with what's out there

[16:04:14] <ronny> hmm

[17:47:50] <lifeless> dstufft: / anyone: - is there a 'OR' operator for specifiers ?

[23:03:26] <dstufft> lifeless: not currently, someday I'd like tere to be

[23:17:37] <lifeless> dstufft: k, needs PEP work?

[23:17:42] <lifeless> dstufft: also whats up with https://github.com/pypa/pip/pull/2750 ?

[23:19:08] <dstufft> lifeless: yea it needs a PEP to define it, and idk what's up with that