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[01:02:50] <lifeless> dstufft: so

[01:02:59] <lifeless> dstufft: would you be open to a pip thing like I raise?

[01:04:50] <dstufft> lifeless: how do you plan on determining if something is distro installed?

[01:07:29] <lifeless> dstufft: no idea :)

[01:07:53] <lifeless> dstufft: perhaps as crude as looking for the missing vendored urllib3

[01:08:08] <lifeless> dstufft: we could make it datadriven etc

[01:09:14] <dstufft> lifeless: so you want this to be specific to requests/urllib3 and not a generalized "x vendors y, reinstall x if you're installing y and x is from a distro?"

[01:14:19] <lifeless> dstufft: well, there's a limited number of vendoring cases

[01:14:41] <lifeless> dstufft: but that could work too

[01:14:50] <lifeless> dstufft: just refuse to consume anything in dist-packages

[01:16:51] <lifeless> dstufft: that might unfairly penalise numpy users though

[01:16:59] <lifeless> dstufft: (and other expensive-compile things)

[01:17:04] <dstufft> it's also debuntu specific

[01:17:13] <dstufft> other distros don't have a dist-packages

[01:17:20] <lifeless> Fedora sounds like they're fixing the situation anyhow

[01:17:38] <lifeless> do arch unbundle? Like, how far does the philosophical rot go?

[01:17:46] <dstufft> um

[01:17:51] <dstufft> I don't know what arch does tbh

[01:17:57] <dstufft> nobody has ever yelled at me about arch

[01:18:50] <dstufft> lifeless: I'm going to need to think about this some

[01:18:58] <dstufft> fixing this in pip feels really dirty

[01:19:02] <lifeless> dstufft: I agree

[01:19:04] <dstufft> but it might be the only effective thing :/

[01:19:15] <lifeless> dstufft: indeed

[01:19:22] <lifeless> dstufft: there's no panic over it

[01:19:34] <lifeless> dstufft: but its really sapping folks will to live a small slice at a time

[01:23:49] <dstufft> I might press my luck and see if I can convince requests to unbundle

[01:27:14] <lifeless> we'll still have to fix pip for that

[01:27:24] <lifeless> to make it honour their pins in all cases

[01:28:30] <dstufft> I'm not sure I understand why requests is special in that case

[01:31:29] <lifeless> its not, its just that most folk don't hard-pin

[01:31:47] <lifeless> but if they unbundle and want the same control over things they'll end up with a == pin on the urllib3 they work with

[01:32:14] <dstufft> I wonder if they even really need the ==

[01:32:24] <dstufft> urllib3 is pretty backwards compatible.

[01:32:40] <dstufft> I think the biggest thing is they just aggressively rely on new features in urllib3

[06:30:57] <Ivo> holy ****** Re: [Distutils] Towards a simple and standard sdist format that isn't intertwined with distutils is goddamn massive

[06:36:22] <Ivo> lifeless, arch has --without-ensurepip atm

[07:16:04] <lifeless> Ivo: thats unrelated to the requests issue

[07:34:11] <Ivo> sure, just wanted to mention

[19:42:59] <dstufft> lifeless: lol openstack-dev rejected me

[19:43:54] <dstufft> lifeless: anyways, I know about the resolver things, but I think we can get them fixed before Jessie+1 which is when requests would be upgraded to 2.7+ in Debian anyways

[23:49:04] <lifeless> dstufft: yeah, its in progress