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[12:43:33] <xafer> Any opinion on adding landscape.io on pip repo ? It is basically a pylint run

[12:44:41] <xafer> It found a few valid issues, cf https://landscape.io/github/xavfernandez/pip/22/messages/error

[13:56:01] <ronny> hi jaraco - can i read your recent rise in appearance that you have more time for opensource these days?

[14:17:09] <jaraco> hi ronny. Not really. I have just remembered to start up my IRC client and haven’t restarted my computer yet ;)

[14:18:49] <jaraco> I spend many hours a week on open source, but distributed over dozens of projects, each one gets only a bit of my time.

[14:22:21] <ronny> jaraco: i see

[14:23:15] <ronny> jaraco: it would be neat if there was a way to quantify what everyone spends on opensource, i think if that was more transparent a lot of unreasonable requests/questions would be gone

[18:29:43] <sigmavirus24> ronny: I disagree. I think the requests would just become complaints that the person isn't spending time on the project they want that person to spend time instead of some other project

[19:34:56] <nlh> ping dstufft

[19:51:09] <dstufft> nlh: pong

[19:52:49] <nlh> hiya

[19:53:41] <nlh> hey, do you think we could work out https://github.com/pypa/warehouse/issues/716 soon?

[19:53:47] <nlh> I'd like to get it up asap

[19:54:05] <nlh> do you think if we approached uservoice we might be able to get sponsorship?

[19:58:16] <dstufft> jesus they are $499/month?!

[19:58:46] <dstufft> I can email them to ask for a sponsorship

[20:00:00] <dstufft> nlh: is the Basic plan enough or do you want Premium

[20:00:22] <dstufft> nlh: Also, https://github.com/pypa/warehouse/pull/848 should be OK to merge yea?

[20:14:40] <nlh> dstufft: the basic plan is heaps, the only thing is if you think we'll need larger usage limits

[20:15:06] <dstufft> nlh: "heaps"?

[20:16:00] <nlh> in terms of features...

[20:16:15] <nlh> unless you think we need multi-language support

[20:16:29] <dstufft> Is that a slang I'm not familiar with for "good"

[20:16:48] <nlh> no... I'm just tired :/

[20:16:49] <nlh> lol

[20:17:25] <dstufft> Oh!

[20:17:27] <dstufft> I'm like

[20:17:40] <dstufft> I barely speak american english, all of these other englishes are way over my head

[20:17:56] <nlh> yes, that's "Nicole English"

[20:18:03] <nlh> it does not make sense most of the time

[20:19:38] <dstufft> That's OK, I went though the US public education system in a rural town, this is not an entirely wrong picture about the average student there - https://caremad.io/s/RS5LvfT6NA/web-i0u2nXfHmE.jpg :D

[20:20:18] <dstufft> nlh: Ok, so I'll email them and ask for Basic since I don't think we need multi language for this right now since Warehouse itself isn't (yet) multi language

[20:24:16] <dstufft> nlh: Okay, I emailed them

[20:25:11] <pypabot> Deployed 7446cd7 to Warehouse (Production)

[20:38:23] <nlh> thanks dstufft :D :D

[20:38:42] <dstufft> nlh: I changed Heroku from "Hosting" to "PaaS" in the footer at their request btw

[20:38:52] <nlh> ok, np

[20:38:59] <nlh> I think we should also change the order of the sponsors

[20:39:15] <nlh> so we don't have any of the hosting companies next to each other...

[20:39:44] <dstufft> that's fine with me, that's just changing the order of https://github.com/python/pypi-theme/blob/master/pypi_theme/templates/sponsors.html#L1-L16

[20:40:39] <dstufft> we got permission from Statuspage and Rackspace now, haven't heard anything from Dyn or Pingdom, and HPE is doing lawyer shit or something

[20:41:11] <dstufft> my vote is anyone who doesn't give us a white logo and permission just doesn't get to be in the footer *shrug*

[20:41:52] <nlh> yeah, I think I'll reorder them by size/height... so it visually looks good

[20:42:00] <nlh> but I can't do that until we have all the final logos

[20:42:41] <nlh> and I agree - we can always leave any out that won't supply info/logos

[20:42:52] <nlh> or permission....

[20:42:55] <dstufft> I sent the demo to everyone whose logo we had, we've either had no response or people saying it looked good

[20:46:21] <nlh> ok cool

[20:54:44] <ronny> sigmavirus24: but if you have the data, you can simply kill such complaints early on as - "my free time, my choice, pay for priority, im not a free laborer but a volunteer"

[20:55:22] <sigmavirus24> ronny: I don't disagree, but that rarely goes over well. And some people do stuff entirely in their free time for fun and don't want to introduce $$$ to that part of their life

[20:55:26] <dstufft> I'm not sure I want random people having data about where I spend my time

[20:55:51] <sigmavirus24> And then they get further shit from larger communities that have come to rely on their software for not reacting fast enough or taking something seriously enough

[20:56:16] <sigmavirus24> It's F/OSS but not all F/OSS is created equal. Some of it is just someone scratching a silly itch of theirs or trying out a thought experiment

[20:57:12] <ronny> sigmavirus24: as soon as you run projects in maintenance*feature development modes that are in semi-wide use some details change

[20:58:22] <ronny> and without data its harder to make a case for we do more than enough for free, feel free to contract us, but dont ruin our free time where we do what we like, not what you want us to do

[21:03:49] <ronny> sigmavirus24: also i like the quantification idea for another detail - you can directly put people trying to shame you into doing even more work for free into the spot of the abuser by just pointing out the numbers

[21:04:35] <sigmavirus24> ronny: right, I don't think anyone wants to spend that kind of time on pointing out that people are being abusive except for those people experiencing a lot of said abuse

[21:06:38] <ronny> sigmavirus24: well, im open to other suggestions that enable people to step into a point where they can just say 'that part is actual work, pay me to get it fast or stop compaining'

[22:14:44] <xafer> I'd like to merge the nice PR https://github.com/pypa/pip/pull/3258 which solve a bunch of issues.

[22:14:51] <lifeless> StevenK: how is the dependency specifier patch to packaging looking ?

[22:15:22] <xafer> One particular aspect where I'd like feedback is the change in the detection of editable installs

[22:16:20] <xafer> The detection of editable packages now relies on the presence of .egg-link file instead of vcs directories.

[22:16:57] <lifeless> StevenK: (I'd like to consume it ...)