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[05:03:27] <Ivoz> njs, pip has already removed bespoke output routines and replaced them with logging which ended up with a lot cleaner code

[05:03:56] <njs> huh

[05:04:05] <njs> well, dunno. maybe they were the wrong bespoke output routines :-)

[14:28:53] <dstufft> njs: more Ivo more likely, we jsut didn't remove enough bespoke routines :D

[15:42:30] <sigmavirus24> dstufft: I feel like what might help with the abstract build system talks would be something akin to wheel that would build sdists on its own that isn't setuptools or distutils, am I wrong?