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[00:32:31] <lifeless> jaraco: personally I'm hugely uninterested in yet-another-chat-client. I explicitly don't want them on my phone - if I'm not in focus mode, I don't want the interrupts from casual discussion.

[00:32:51] <lifeless> jaraco: but if the group moves somewhere, I can sign into $whatever when I've got a specific discussion to have, I guess.

[00:33:13] <lifeless> jaraco: (which is, I suspect, how you interact with IRC today)

[00:33:29] <lifeless> jaraco: would IRCloud meet your needs? I know a bunch of folk using that

[03:38:54] <jaraco> lifeless: When I use Slack or Gitter, I disable notifications except for direct messages and mentions, so there’s no interrupts from casual conversations, but if I someone does ping me, I have the choice to go direct to the conversation and see the context.

[03:39:28] <jaraco> IRCloud certainly looks to be helpful. I don’t think I’d seen it before.

[03:40:39] <jaraco> One reason I particularly like Gitter is because it’s integrated with Github, so I don’t have to have yet another account. And since I already have to use Gitter for at least two projects (and I expect this number to increase to dozens in a year ar so), it’s nice to have everything together there.

[03:40:58] <jaraco> I do appreciate the decoupled, open nature of IRC, so I’ll look into IRCCloud. Thanks for the reference.

[03:42:12] <lifeless> jaraco: you're welcome

[10:16:08] <d0ugal> My docker is rusty, but I just cloned warehouse and tried 'docker start' (as per the quickstart) and I get: docker: "start" requires a minimum of 1 argument.

[10:18:05] <dstufft> d0ugal: if you already have the docker daemon running you don't need that part-- I don't actually manually start docker so I'd have to look to see what the init scripts normally do

[10:19:28] <d0ugal> dstufft: I just noticed I am missing docker-compose, so that might be the issue.

[10:19:49] <dstufft> d0ugal: how did you install docker btw?

[10:19:54] <d0ugal> dstufft: yum

[10:20:21] <dstufft> d0ugal: if you installed it via yum, you probably don't need `docker start` because I assume yum comes with init scripts to keep it running

[10:20:27] <d0ugal> (well, actually with dnf. One day I will remember that)

[10:20:31] <d0ugal> right, makes sense

[10:20:52] <dstufft> but you will need docker-compose since that's what manages which containers get started and which links to which

[10:27:59] <d0ugal> I had to start it. sudo systemctl start docker

[10:28:16] <dstufft> ah

[10:28:23] <dstufft> silly linuxes

[10:28:26] <d0ugal> :)

[10:28:30] <dstufft> linuxii

[10:28:42] <d0ugal> haha

[10:28:43] <dstufft> A well actually of linux

[10:28:53] <dstufft> whatever the plural form is

[10:28:57] <d0ugal> I now get "ERROR: Couldn't connect to Docker daemon at http+docker://localunixsocket - is it running?" - so seems it still isn't quite right

[10:29:23] <dstufft> d0ugal: Something makes me think you have to add your user to a group

[10:29:26] <dstufft> on Fedora

[10:30:52] <d0ugal> dstufft: oh yeah, I think you are right. It seems to work if I sudo everything

[10:31:10] <d0ugal> Which is probably not ideal :D

[13:35:02] <d0ugal> hrm, web_1 and worker_1 both error for me now after a `make serve`

[13:35:08] <d0ugal> https://paste.fedoraproject.org/368469/66438314/

[13:35:43] <dstufft> d0ugal: huh

[13:35:46] <dstufft> that is interesting

[13:35:59] <d0ugal> Yeah, I can't figure out what would case it :)

[13:36:03] <d0ugal> I've made no code changes yet

[13:36:11] <dstufft> [13:25:03] Error: EACCES: permission denied, mkdir '/app/warehouse/static/dist' static_1 | at Error (native)

[13:36:15] <dstufft> I wonder if that's related

[13:36:28] <d0ugal> ah

[13:36:36] <d0ugal> I missed that.

[13:37:08] <dstufft> we're mounting some directories from . into the docker container as volumes

[13:37:34] <dstufft> I only run this on OSX though, not on Linux so I'm not sure if there's an extra step. Wonder if google turns up anythin

[13:37:46] <d0ugal> oh, I'll check perms

[13:37:53] <dstufft> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24288616/permission-denied-on-accessing-host-directory-in-docker

[13:37:57] <dstufft> quick google says that ^

[13:38:35] <dstufft> wonder if there's a way to pass that option via docker-compose...

[13:39:51] <dstufft> d0ugal: trying adding :z to the end of each of these lines https://github.com/pypa/warehouse/blob/master/docker-compose.yml#L29-L32

[13:43:38] <d0ugal> k, giving it a go

[13:49:13] <dstufft> d0ugal: if that works, a PR to add those would be great. I just verified they don't break anything on OSX

[13:51:01] <d0ugal> dstufft: Yup, it works!

[13:51:49] <dstufft> d0ugal: cool, was just SELinux getting in the way then :]

[13:51:58] <d0ugal> heh, that's what it likes to do

[13:52:22] <d0ugal> Reading that stack overflow, I don't understand the difference between :z and :Z

[13:52:34] <d0ugal> but since the lowercase version works, I'll submit that.

[13:53:13] <dstufft> the docker docs suggest that by default docker doesn't adjust the SELinux labels at all, :z adjusts them so that the same thing can be shared amongst many containers, and :Z changes them so that it's private to a single container

[13:53:25] <d0ugal> aha

[13:55:10] <dstufft> glad it was an easy fix though \o/

[13:55:23] <d0ugal> dstufft: Thanks for your help!

[13:55:38] <d0ugal> I'll try and go back to looking at the "easy" label on GitHub now :)

[13:56:29] <dstufft> d0ugal: :]

[13:56:46] <dstufft> Note: We aren't super great about maintaining the "easy" label :/ but we try

[14:02:59] <mrasband> I am in the same boat d0ugal, trying to find ways to pitch in and getting side tracked on little things (like copy to clipboard) to break the ice

[14:03:20] <d0ugal> mrasband: Nice!

[14:03:23] <mrasband> dstufft, how do you feel about more JS deps? I try to avoid them but clipboard.js looks perfect for this

[14:03:35] <mrasband> https://clipboardjs.com/

[14:05:21] <dstufft> mrasband: seems entirely reasonable :) We use npm to handle our JS deps and ES6 syntax

[14:05:46] <dstufft> (transpiled down to ES5 for older browsers)

[14:08:40] <mrasband> Yeah, I saw that - you've done a really good job at making it approachable

[14:08:46] <dstufft> mrasband: a quick read of that page makes it look like a pretty attactive option

[14:09:05] <dstufft> mrasband: thanks :)

[14:09:10] <mrasband> What's the browser targets (how far old of IE)

[14:09:42] <dstufft> mrasband: https://warehouse.pypa.io/development/frontend/#browser-support

[14:10:12] <mrasband> Thanks!

[14:10:21] <dstufft> oh, the toolchain part of that page needs updated still

[14:10:24] <dstufft> it still talks about bower

[14:10:30] <mrasband> ghetto ;)

[14:11:40] <dstufft> I'm still figuring out how to manage testing front end JS stuff, we have selenium in the mix with bok-choy to try and make things easier but we've only got one test written for that so far

[14:12:12] <dstufft> ideally our frontend stuff will be tested well enough that we can use something like https://greenkeeper.io/ to keep things up to date on the JS side

[14:13:02] <dstufft> (so if you have opinions on front end testing, I'm all ears :] )

[14:13:30] <mrasband> That looks really cool. Believe it or not, at one point in my career I was an automation engineer (QA) and only did api and front end testing for webapps...

[14:16:27] <dstufft> mrasband: awesome :D

[14:16:35] <dstufft> Warehouse deploys straight from Master

[14:16:38] <dstufft> master*

[14:16:44] <dstufft> assuming tests pass and all that jazz

[14:17:18] <dstufft> so we try to add tests for as many of the important behaviors as we can, but we don't have anything really for high level stuff yet either :( like "Can a user actually log in using their browser"

[14:17:38] <mrasband> One step at a time :)

[14:17:44] <dstufft> yea :)

[14:18:58] <mrasband> I'll start looking into some testing stuff. Since client side tests are finiky, I am pretty much a "follow the happy path" for the base layer and fill in around it if/when bugs come up

[14:20:52] <dstufft> mrasband: that's cool with me :) At the end of the day, unless we get cross browser automated testing (currently our selenium tests just run in phantomjs) there's some level of breakage we're going to just have toa ccept either way, but that's OK because part of the goal of all this is to make it lots easier to deploy fixes too :D

[19:49:36] <xafer> dstufft: is it ok if I merge https://github.com/pypa/pip/pull/3686 in develop and fast-forward master instead of recreating a new PR ?

[19:50:05] <dstufft> xafer: as long as it ends up on master idc what you do :)

[19:51:12] <xafer> k :)

[19:52:52] <jaraco> lifeless: Looking at IRCloud pricing (https://www.irccloud.com/pricing), it seems that the free account only stays connected for two hours while inactive, meaning presumably if I put my laptop to sleep overnight, or while on a flight, I’ll miss messages and pings. With Slack and Gitter, permanent connection is a free feature.

[19:53:42] <jaraco> Plus, Each person would need three accounts - one for github, one for freenode, and one for IRCCloud. With Slack, it’s only two, and with Gitter it’s only one.

[19:54:45] <jaraco> Or zero, if you figure that many contributors already have a Github account (almost certainly the most popular, maybe second to Google).

[19:56:47] <xafer> erm, sorry dstufft, apparently I can't simply push on master :o maybe I'll be able after travis has finished building develop

[19:58:57] <dstufft> jaraco: want a bouncer?

[19:59:11] <dstufft> or jaraco_

[20:00:00] <jaraco> I’m afraid I really don’t. Does a bouncer send push notifications to my device and let me see the context of the conversation when I open it?

[20:01:13] <dstufft> jaraco // jaraco_ in any case, switching the chat medium is likely something that'd need to be discussed on the ML rather than ad hoc in IRC

[20:01:23] <dstufft> I'm not the world's biggest fan of IRC either fwiw

[20:01:54] <jaraco> I thought I’d come here first to see if there were any opinions already.

[20:02:13] <dstufft> jaraco: specific to the bouncer question, yes if I install an addon into my ZNC that I was going to offer you an account on if you wanted it :] and yes on the second too, it replays scrollback when you connect

[20:02:49] <dstufft> I've never used gitter

[20:03:43] <dstufft> II've used slack, Slack is OK but it often doesn't work as well for random OSS channels b/c of the whole invite hoops you need to deal with

[20:04:12] <dstufft> IRC sucks obviously because of lack of persistent conncetions :(

[20:04:26] <jaraco> Indeed, it’s something of a poor fit for disparate group.s

[20:04:49] <StevenK> The jump back to text mediums as the "new hotness" is rather amusing.

[20:05:39] <jaraco> Now I'm on IRCCloud.

[20:06:48] <dstufft> There's http://www.mattermost.org/

[20:08:12] <StevenK> IRCCloud is ... odd

[20:08:18] <dstufft> (I don't even like mailing lists, I think their Archaic and crappy)

[20:08:21] <dstufft> they're

[20:08:28] <StevenK> I've not used them, but I've had enough conversations with people who do.

[20:08:49] <dstufft> I mostly don't use IRCCloud because they're only a web app

[20:08:55] <dstufft> or a mobile app

[20:09:05] <dstufft> if Ic ould connect with Textual I'd be all over it

[20:09:42] <dstufft> xafer: If you have problems getting that pushed to master let me know and I'll figure it out

[20:10:57] <dstufft> For #python-infra we have an IRC channel and a Slack channel and a both that bridges them

[20:11:03] <dstufft> it's not the greatest experience though

[20:11:09] <dstufft> a bot*

[20:11:34] <dstufft> It works OK though, since most of the time the folks in slacks are observers rather than participants

[21:04:31] <ryanhiebert> is BrownTruck a custom bot? I'm wanting something similar to help me keep up with my dependencies.

[21:26:53] <dstufft> ryanhiebert: it's just requires.io with a custom name

[21:27:07] <ryanhiebert> dstufft: Thanks

[21:40:41] <lifeless> hmm, I should point requires.io at the constraints generator I wrote for openstack :)

[21:41:52] <dstufft> my main wish for requires.io now is that it supported --hash

[21:53:45] <lifeless> is it free? whats their revenue model?

[21:54:21] <dstufft> it is free

[21:54:53] <dstufft> pretty sure their revenue model is "charge people for non public things"

[21:55:15] <dstufft> https://requires.io/plans/

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#pypa-dev logs for Thursday the 19th of May, 2016