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[16:31:05] <nlh> dstufft are you about

[16:31:11] <dstufft> nlh: ya

[16:31:16] <nlh> hello :)

[16:31:20] <dstufft> heya

[16:31:33] <nlh> i'm just looking at this PR

[16:31:52] <nlh> do you think end users really care who uploaded the files?

[16:32:09] <nlh> or is it more that the maintainers will want their username in the UI?

[16:32:24] <nlh> oh sorry, https://github.com/pypa/warehouse/pull/1267

[16:32:30] <nlh> I forgot to paste the link :P

[16:33:43] <dstufft> nlh: I don't think it's something that's always useful, but sometimes folks get confused why a particular version even exists on PyPI and information around who made a release tends to be helpful in those cases

[16:34:01] <dstufft> currently people who get confused tend to message me, then I manually query the DB and tell them

[16:34:06] <nlh> ok

[16:34:21] <nlh> so maybe we can put 'released by x' as the main title in the changelog

[16:34:34] <dstufft> I don't think we need to surface it as like, a super in-your-face element

[16:34:38] <nlh> then have some (maybe partially hidden) info on who uploaded the files

[16:34:51] <dstufft> yea, that seems reasonable

[16:34:53] <nlh> something like "view file releases"?

[16:35:12] <nlh> It could even launch in a modal, now that we are thinking of using one for the license

[16:35:20] <dstufft> another alternative is that we have a a, hm, changelog or journal of sorts

[16:35:31] <dstufft> it's basically a big list of all actions that ever have taken place, who took them, and when

[16:35:45] <nlh> "activity" log

[16:35:46] <nlh> ?

[16:35:49] <dstufft> yea

[16:36:12] <nlh> we could add a button group at the top of the changelog so you can toggle between the "changelog" view and "activity log" view

[16:36:24] <dstufft> https://github.com/pypa/warehouse/blob/master/warehouse/packaging/models.py#L420-L461

[16:36:37] <dstufft> it's not currently super structuted, but I want to fix that

[16:36:47] <nlh> ok

[16:37:00] <dstufft> but that includes a bunch if information like who uploaded a file, who deletes a file, adding new maintainers, removing maintainers, etc

[16:37:13] <nlh> ok, so lets leave the change log with just "released by"

[16:37:23] <nlh> and open a new issue for creating an activity log with this information

[16:37:26] <nlh> does that sound ok?

[16:37:31] <dstufft> basically every action by an end user that modifies the state of the DB as far as proejcts/releases/files is concerned gets recorded there

[16:37:33] <dstufft> nlh: yup!

[16:37:53] <nlh> what milestone would you want the activity log in?

[16:38:13] <dstufft> it's fine to have it in the last one, uh, new features or whatever

[16:38:18] <nlh> ok, cool

[16:38:22] <nlh> I'll open the issue now :)

[16:38:31] <nlh> and merge that PR

[16:38:39] <dstufft> it's sort of feature parity (authors can view the log now on legacy pypi) but meh

[16:38:51] <dstufft> I don't think many authors realize they can view it now :D

[16:39:34] <nlh> ok, your call

[16:39:49] <dstufft> (I guess "feature parity" would be better described as "we can shut down legacy" rather than 1:1 feature parity)

[16:40:01] <nlh> ok, let's rename it then :)

[16:41:10] <nlh> actually... based on the issue tracker, we have both "3: Feature parity" and "4: shut down legacy"

[16:41:17] <nlh> I'm thinking maybe they should be the other way around

[16:41:52] <nlh> because we want to shut down legacy as soon as we can

[16:42:05] <nlh> and maybe we can live with a few things not making feature parity

[16:43:03] <dstufft> or just combine them, I'm not sure Feature Parity as a concept makes a whole lot sense outside of the idea of shutting down legacy-- IOW once legacy is shut down whether someone wants to work on a feature parity thing or a brand spanking new feature I don't think really matters priority wise?

[16:43:24] <nlh> yes, I agree

[16:43:46] <nlh> unless we get complaints about a missing feature

[16:43:52] <nlh> but then we can just prioritise it

[16:44:00] <dstufft> getting-yelled-at-driven-development

[16:44:10] <dstufft> Guilty Driven Development!

[16:44:15] <dstufft> Guilt*

[16:45:28] <nlh> haha, yeah

[16:46:15] <dstufft> it might make sense to combine the pre-launch testing and launch milestones too, they both contain things that need to be done prior to actually triggering the "launch"

[16:46:41] <dstufft> (maybe worth just sending these two ideas to summana and seeing if she agrees)

[16:51:44] <nlh> dstufft: whoops... I already did it before I saw your last comment

[16:52:01] <dstufft> nlh: fine with me

[16:52:02] <nlh> I'll send her an email and let her know, if she wants to make changes, then we can do that too :)

[16:52:47] <nlh> also, I think I am going to make a new label: 'post launch - top priority'

[16:57:57] <nlh> ok, dinner time

[16:58:02] <nlh> bye dstufft

[16:58:09] <dstufft> nlh: see ya!

[18:43:09] <asmacdo> dstufft, are you doing any PEP440 validation on the version scheme in pypi or warehouse?

[18:43:30] <dstufft> asmacdo: yea, all versions are validated on upload (although there is legacy data)

[18:44:11] <asmacdo> new stuff must be valid, old stuff is grandfathered in?

[18:44:54] <dstufft> asmacdo: correct

[18:45:11] <asmacdo> dstufft, thanks

[19:45:49] <sumanah> hi nlh dstufft thanks for the heads-up!

[19:46:12] <nlh> no worries sumanah - I hope it makes sense :)

[19:46:33] <nlh> I now have all of my issues in the issue tracker (at least everything in my head)

[19:46:46] <sumanah> nlh: oh great -- you have answered the very next question I was going to ask, nlh!

[19:46:54] <nlh> I just need to go through it again and make sure they are in the right milestones and have the correct tags

[19:47:09] <sumanah> nlh: do you feel comfortable making some very generous & conservative estimates on those issues that are in your bailiwick?

[19:47:18] <nlh> sumanah: that's the plan

[19:47:22] <sumanah> Much thanks

[19:47:27] <nlh> I'm going to try and sit down and do some estimates tomorrow

[19:47:28] <sumanah> nlh: and by the way did you see the note I sent Ewa and the packaging mailing list?

[19:47:32] <sumanah> Fantastic

[19:47:33] <nlh> yes, i saw that

[19:47:48] <nlh> thanks

[19:48:00] <sumanah> I look forward to being able to give a firmer suggested plan, but do speak up of course if anything I've said sounds off

[19:48:40] <nlh> no, it sounded reasonable

[19:48:53] <nlh> :)

[19:54:33] <sumanah> Great, thanks nlh. Anything you need from me in order to help your estimation or other work this weekend?

[19:55:04] <nlh> no, I think I should be fine. I'll let you know how i go. Thanks sumanah :)

[19:55:08] <sumanah> Sure

[19:55:16] <sumanah> I'm really grateful for the work you've already put in

[19:55:23] <sumanah> nlh: may I PM briefly?

[19:55:28] <nlh> sure :)

[20:03:15] <sumanah> Thanks nlh - right now I will wait to see more estimates

[20:03:21] <sumanah> before I go flesh out the plan more

[20:04:01] <sumanah> nlh: and if you had to guess how much more dstufft-related work there is to do where there IS no GitHub issue as yet: "0" vs. "unknown but probably a lot" vs. something else? :)

[20:07:19] <dstufft> It's not 0, but I don't think there's a lot that doesn't have an issue

[20:09:46] <dstufft> sigmavirus: Hey, so from folksw ho have tried warehouse out so far for uploads I've got no reported problems-- what do you think about cutting a twine release sometime in the near future to start pushing more folks over to it?

[20:10:15] <sigmavirus> dstufft: Yeah I'm on board with that. I think I'll get to it Monday

[20:10:37] <dstufft> sigmavirus: sounds good, jsut ping me before you do to make sure I'm around in case there are fires?

[20:10:46] <sigmavirus> Sure

[20:10:50] <dstufft> sigmavirus: thanks sir!

[20:13:29] <sumanah> sigmavirus: *wave*

[20:15:10] <sigmavirus> sumanah: HI!

[20:15:17] <sumanah> Thanks for your work as always sigmavirus

[20:15:20] <sigmavirus> sumanah: I'm jealous that you get to help out on Warehouse :)

[20:15:47] <sumanah> sigmavirus: :) this is exactly the kind of work I set up Changeset Consulting to structure my work on.

[20:15:55] <sumanah> I'm grateful to be able to work on it

[20:20:03] <sigmavirus> :)

[20:20:08] <sigmavirus> Keep doing awesome work

[20:20:25] <dstufft> sigmavirus: obviously you just need to make RPC depend on PyPI somehow :P

[20:26:50] <sumanah> Much thanks sigmavirus -- we're hoping to get PSF financial support to really help us be able to concentrate on this in a sustainable way

[20:27:18] <sumanah> I'm fine with throwing in some free work to help Warehouse organize and prep as we prepare to make that request

[20:58:44] <sumanah> thanks for the clarification dstufft -- once Nicole has estimated some stuff I'll be able to help make a firmer plan.

[20:59:00] <sumanah> I'm heading off to other client work; best wishes and hope you are able to get a little relaxation in this weekend.

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#pypa-dev logs for Friday the 1st of July, 2016