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[19:47:48] <tos9> Is e.g. "Could not build wheels for cryptography which use PEP 517 and cannot be installed directly" just a confusing new way to say "building the wheel failed"?

[19:47:54] <tos9> It appears to be, judging from the output

[20:01:39] <ehashman> where are you seeing that

[20:03:22] <tos9> ehashman: From pip installing cryptography

[20:03:48] <tos9> Not sure what's emitting it, but from what I did to fix it, it appears to just mean the usual thing for me, which is "go change PKG_CONFIG_PATH on macOS to get cryptogrpahy to find openssl"

[20:03:57] <tos9> so it appears to just be a new (IMO way more confusing) message

[20:04:24] <tos9> Maybe it's emitted in the case where a package now uses PEP517, so it's saying "the wheel failed, and refusing to try an sdist now either" or something

[20:04:37] <tos9> But still a lot more confusing to see as an end user who, let's say, doesn't even know what PEP517 is

[20:09:51] <ehashman> can you report that as a bug on pyca/cryptography please?

[20:10:12] <tos9> ehashman: It's not a cryptography bug I'm fairly sure

[20:10:14] <tos9> But I can check.

[20:10:23] <ehashman> yeah that's fine

[20:10:24] <tos9> ehashman: It seems very likely it's just a new error message pip emits, no?

[20:10:32] <tos9> Well. Why guess. Let's see..

[20:10:57] <ehashman> it's not a cryptography bug but it's relevant to the maintainers

[20:11:01] <tos9> ehashman: How so?

[20:11:15] <ehashman> because you're unable to install the wheel?

[20:11:22] <tos9> ehashman: They don't build wheels for my platform.

[20:11:24] <tos9> (PyPy)

[20:11:26] <tos9> Which they're aware of.

[20:11:43] <tos9> Though yeah I'd love it if/when they do :)

[20:12:10] <ehashman> well they use cffi so in theory cryptography should support pypy just fine

[20:12:22] <tos9> ehashman: Yes, they support it just fine, they just don't build wheels that are pushed to PyPI.

[20:12:42] <tos9> (For lack of build system support but also because manylinux1 doesn't work for PyPy)

[20:13:34] <tos9> The actual thing I'm "complaining" about is I think just these lines: https://github.com/pypa/pip/blob/f048eb7a76eab222a4dfcfc3fd01f1c9e992f49a/src/pip/_internal/commands/install.py#L358-L364

[20:13:40] <tos9> That error message is not very decypherable for end users.

[20:13:59] <tos9> (Which I'm seeing for cryptography, but someone would see for any package that hits that branch)

[20:20:48] <dstufft> tos9: open an issue with pip pls

[20:26:37] <tos9> dstufft: Will do

[20:33:16] <tos9> dstufft: what's the thing here that's relevant that's triggering PEP517 things?

[20:33:25] <tos9> Is cryptography's setup.* somehow telling pip that it's special?

[20:34:38] <tos9> or are they just somewhere using a feature that is only supported via pep517

[20:45:44] <dstufft> tos9: they're using pyproject.toml, which is being ued as a flag to opt-into the PEP 517 build support

[20:45:51] <dstufft> and we don't fall back to setup.py if PEP 517 fails

[20:54:26] <tos9> Got it.

[20:54:56] <tos9> (Filed https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/6256 FWIW)