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[01:24:38] <toad_polo> Though that stuff is mostly for applications, presumably.

[01:50:48] <techalchemy> tos9, would you want to know how many are defining pep517 backends in metadata (i.e. pyproject.toml or setup.cfg)?

[01:57:02] <toad_polo> techalchemy: You can't declare a pep517 backend in setup.cfg...

[01:57:23] <techalchemy> toad_polo, hmmm you can't? I feel like I thought you could

[01:57:30] <techalchemy> maybe pip respects it

[02:05:46] <techalchemy> toad_polo, wow I have no idea why i thought setup.cfg was being parsed, in retrospect it makes no sense

[02:06:39] <techalchemy> i legitimately thought i read that in pip's code when the first pep517 support was released last yr

[02:08:33] <techalchemy> (i was reading that when i wrote my own handlers to determine pep517 backends etc and I check setup.cfg as a fallback, I guess I just made that up)

[02:29:48] <toad_polo> Yeah. PEP 517 explicitly talks about why only pyproject.toml is used.

[02:35:04] <techalchemy> yeah it makes total sense

[02:35:29] <techalchemy> setup.cfg would make no sense for info about how to build a pkg if you don't even know whether you will need setuptools yet

[03:58:53] <tos9> techalchemy: that question is basically equivalent to "how many projects have pyproject.tomls", yeah

[03:59:04] <techalchemy> tos9, well not really

[03:59:16] <techalchemy> you speciflcally need to know if their pyproject.tomls define the relevant sections

[03:59:20] <techalchemy> section*

[03:59:21] <tos9> techalchemy: because of tool-only pyproject.toms?

[03:59:28] <techalchemy> yeah

[03:59:41] <tos9> yeah but I think that doesn't matter much, IIRC pip changes behavior regardless, no

[03:59:51] <tos9> but even so probably the ones with tool-only ones are noise

[04:00:11] <tos9> but sure it's easy to parse it once you find it so I guess could look at that separately

[04:01:03] <techalchemy> i was just working on code to stream package metadata and deflate on the fly like a day or two ago

[04:01:29] <tos9> that sounds nice and relevant

[04:02:05] <tos9> (FWIW yeah looks like pip will happily install a directory with just a totally empty pyproject.toml)

[04:02:13] <tos9> which ha is funny, but.

[04:02:28] <techalchemy> yep, it will make a bunch of assumptions if you don't define anything

[04:03:26] <techalchemy> when i handle this i always try to use pep517 backends first if nothing is defined and i can't parse what i need some other way

[04:12:26] <toad_polo> If there's a pyproject.toml in the sdist, pip will build it with PEP 517, so "has a pyproject.toml" is a good proxy for "works with PEP 517"

[05:21:30] <techalchemy> toad_polo, pip will *try(

[05:21:32] <techalchemy> *

[05:21:36] <techalchemy> doesn't mean it will succeed ;)

[05:22:32] <techalchemy> i still encounter things that have pyproject.toml and attempt all sorts of silliness in setup.py so can't build with the pep517 backend

[12:08:41] <toad_polo> techalchemy: If it's in the sdist on PyPI it probably works, though. Otherwise someone would have reported that pip install fails.