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[21:39:41] <toad_polo> My god the FUD and misunderstandings around pyproject.toml builds are wild. I've heard Brett giving very accurate and eloquent explanations of it on podcasts and the host of the podcast continuously making mistakes after that. 🙁

[21:39:55] <toad_polo> We need some better messaging.

[21:43:47] <pradyunsg> :(

[21:44:09] <pradyunsg> We need to improve the implementations too. 🙈

[21:57:36] <toad_polo> Sure, I guess, but there's nothing wrong with them.

[21:58:44] <toad_polo> The biggest issue to me where it's an actual regression to use it is when building stuff that benefits from a build cache.

[21:59:01] <toad_polo> It is so annoying to use PEP 517 builds with pandas or rust modules.

[21:59:39] <toad_polo> Also we really need a pypa Unix-philosophy single tool for invoking a build.

[22:01:09] <toad_polo> Basically just the exact same interface as pep517.build (or close to it - possibly with the ability to pass command line options to the build), but with its own command line script and the ability to fall back to the default values for `pyproject.toml`.

[22:02:12] <toad_polo> That reminds me, I should propose this for the summit: https://discuss.python.org/t/proposal-adding-a-persistent-cache-directory-to-pep-517-hooks/2303

[22:15:23] <travis-ci> pypa/twine#1314 (master - fb03835 : Brian Rutledge): The build was broken.

[22:15:23] <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/pypa/twine/compare/613a6f641fdefb815f6ad9cd20ee98220c5529c5...fb03835ebf124ed2f9a447a5f0bd607c283172fb

[22:15:23] <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/pypa/twine/builds/656463580