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[15:19:37] <sumanah> hi techalchemy - I took the evening off and then I had a call this morning, but I am around in case you want another editing pass

[15:19:40] <sumanah> on the pipenv announcement

[15:27:06] <techalchemy> thanks sumanah i gave it to the other maintainers to see if they had comments

[15:27:10] <sumanah> Cool

[15:45:19] <sumanah> toad_polo: glad you liked my Steering Council questions! <3

[15:46:01] <toad_polo> sumanah: I'm glad your questions weren't "I don't like something about Python. Can you talk about why it is bad?"

[15:46:05] <sumanah> ahahaha

[15:46:21] <sumanah> I am cursed to be constructive in my professional dealings. Woe.

[15:47:33] <toad_polo> Though TBH I worry that any sort of staff expansion is going to be super speculative at this point, since the PSF lost a lot of money this year.

[15:47:45] <sumanah> For sure

[15:48:02] <sumanah> (for those curious: thread is https://discuss.python.org/t/collecting-questions-for-a-steering-council-q-a/4010 )

[15:48:24] <toad_polo> Though if you take "get funding for staff to do X" as an action item I wouldn't be surprised if you could pull it off even now :P

[15:48:24] <sumanah> toad_polo: I figure that at least knowing what their needs are will help us scrounge

[15:48:40] <sumanah> toad_polo: the general "you" or the specific "you" meaning Sumana?

[15:48:51] <toad_polo> Specific you.

[15:49:09] <sumanah> I am basking in your confidence in me, and blushing, and laughing because, crap, now I want to live up to that

[15:50:46] <toad_polo> Considering how much time it took me to arrange to get Google to donate my ticket money to the PSF after the cancellation (still not sure I even did it correctly), I am even more in awe of your fundraising prowess 😛

[15:52:37] <sumanah> toad_polo: much thanks :-) all of that fundraising was in The Before Times... and all of it, if I recall correctly, started with writing a grant proposal to an entity that was at least trying to give money away. So we didn't have to deal with the "change of plans!" stuff which is always hairy

[15:54:38] <sumanah> Anyone thinking of asking the Steering Council a question so they can answer it in their PyCon panel: you have like 2-3 more days to post a question

[16:04:30] <sumanah> ok so I gave a lightning talk at the Language Summit https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2020/04/lightning-talks-part-1.html called "What do you need from pip, PyPI, and packaging?" and A. Jesse Jiryu Davis has posted about it on the PSF blog

[16:54:40] <techalchemy> toad_polo, I think it'd be good to establish that there is a desire to hire staff at least even if it weren't yet possible to address the funding bit

[16:56:12] <techalchemy> it still kind of leaves up in the air how to pay for it anyway, i'm not really sure if it should be through grants the psf would get directly or such, I'm sure others have thoughts (maybe you do too?)

[16:56:41] <techalchemy> given how fast things move i'm sure the economy will be back to normal by the time anyone is ready to hire anyway

[17:52:24] <pradyunsg> !pm techalchemy

[17:52:24] <pmxbot> Arrggh ye be doin' good work, techalchemy!

[17:52:34] <pradyunsg> Congratulations on the prerelease of pipenv! ^>^

[17:54:03] <techalchemy> thx pradyunsg

[17:56:07] <PSFSlack> <deveshkusingh> pradyunsg: \o

[18:12:06] <techalchemy> pradyunsg, are you using *nix these days

[18:32:24] <pradyunsg> techalchemy: yes and no. XD

[18:32:35] <pradyunsg> @deveshkusingh: o/

[18:32:54] <techalchemy> wtf does that mean

[18:40:27] <sumanah> I second "I think it'd be good to establish that there is a desire to hire staff at least even if it weren't yet possible to address the funding bit" (assuming that they would like more staff (which I don't 100% want to presume))

[18:40:50] <sumanah> techalchemy: how long will you be waiting for comaintainers' comments before publishing?

[18:47:12] <PSFSlack> <deveshkusingh> Hi pradyunsg: Now as the 20.1 release has been made, is the master now open for PRs?

[18:49:05] <techalchemy> sumanah, i'll likely publish it around 330 est if i dont hear

[18:50:14] <sumanah> Devesh: yes it is

[18:50:37] <PSFSlack> <deveshkusingh> Cool, thanks sumanah

[18:50:54] <sumanah> devesh: confirmed in https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/7951#issuecomment-620789028

[18:51:23] <sumanah> devesh: so have you started contributing to Spack?

[18:52:10] <pradyunsg> techalchemy: yes — since I have a system that’s *nix based. no — that’s not my primary system.

[18:53:39] <techalchemy> pradyunsg, makes sense

[18:55:36] <PSFSlack> <deveshkusingh> sumanah: not yet, work has been a bit hectic for me lately, so couldn't find time to start doing that

[19:03:44] <sumanah> techalchemy: I'll give the draft another look

[19:04:39] <techalchemy> not sure if you saw but i said thursday instead of tuesday

[19:04:43] <techalchemy> to give time to test

[19:07:27] <sumanah> I did see that! Makes sense to me techalchemy

[19:08:00] <sumanah> techalchemy: so can I give you a trick I use to edit stuff like this?

[19:08:10] <techalchemy> sure

[19:08:39] <sumanah> techalchemy: if a sentence has lots of conjunctions and clauses, I usually split it apart into multiple sentences

[19:08:51] <techalchemy> yeah i was looking to do that

[19:08:59] <techalchemy> generally speaking i was looking to make it shorter tbh

[19:09:07] <sumanah> especially if a sentence sort of goes backward and forward in time, saying "x is because of y which we are doing so we can z"

[19:09:18] <sumanah> right

[19:09:37] <techalchemy> sumanah: if you think there is extraneous stuff feel free to liberally delete

[19:09:45] <sumanah> ok!

[19:09:58] <techalchemy> i am 100% sure there is extra material there

[19:12:14] <sumanah> I'm rearranging for concision now.

[19:12:36] <techalchemy> +1 thank you!

[19:12:47] <techalchemy> not my area of expertise it turns out :p

[19:19:34] <sumanah> techalchemy: I added a little "this is long" disclaimer in one part, and reduced wordcount a bit in some others. It's a substantial announcement and it's ok for it to be wordier than a "here's our monthly release" announcement would be

[19:22:14] <techalchemy> ok

[19:22:28] <techalchemy> thank you

[19:22:51] <techalchemy> i'll probably glance over it and just send it out shortly to avoid overthinking it

[19:31:37] <sumanah> Cool

[20:14:01] <ronny> PSA: github artifact actions allow to builda mutlitude of artifacts and then pypi upload them at once

[20:19:40] <techalchemy> sumanah, whats the verdict on sending html formatted emails, is that cool?

[20:19:52] <sumanah> techalchemy: I don't do it, myself

[20:20:03] <techalchemy> blah

[20:20:28] <sumanah> techalchemy: another way to do it is: post your actual thing in Discourse, then write a 2-sentence summary in your mailing list emails plus a link to Discourse

[20:20:52] <sumanah> or post the formatted thing on your blog!

[20:20:52] <techalchemy> meh then i have to pay attention to discourse

[20:21:00] <techalchemy> then i need a blog!

[20:21:19] <techalchemy> i'm already getting like 5 hours of sleep :p

[20:21:23] <sumanah> The Mailman 3 mailing lists including distutils-sig do seem to do formatting ok

[20:21:54] <sumanah> I think that for pypa-dev, HTML formatting is clearly ok, and for distutils-sig it may work

[20:22:01] <techalchemy> i'll just post in discourse and link

[20:22:12] <techalchemy> seems easiest then i can bcc all the mailing lists

[20:22:59] <sumanah> This sounds fine to me

[20:23:18] <sumanah> ronny: that's great!

[20:24:24] <ronny> sumanah: im just implementing that for setuptools_scm, building all the eggs + sdist/wheel in actions, then having a deploy action that pushes to pypi

[20:24:33] <ronny> btw, does the test_pypi accept local versions?

[20:25:01] <sumanah> I'm sorry ronny I'm not sure I know what you mean by "local versions"

[20:25:16] <ronny> the local tags following a plus

[20:25:30] <sumanah> test.pypi.org has the same rules as regular PyPI regarding release versions

[20:25:38] <ronny> aka v 1.0.1.dev23+g0xdeadbeef

[20:25:44] <sumanah> I am looking at https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0440/ now

[20:25:49] <ronny> ah, ok, then i'll have to accept that

[20:26:06] <sumanah> In PEP 440 it's https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0440/#local-version-identifiers right?

[20:26:16] <sumanah> wow I learn something new every day!

[20:26:26] <sumanah> I think I'd seen these before but didn't know the name

[20:27:41] <ronny> setuptools_scm adds them for non-tagged versions or "dirty" worktrees to prevent pypi accidents

[20:27:43] <sumanah> I see "PyPI will reject packages whose version is a local version" in https://github.com/pypa/warehouse/issues/6240

[20:28:19] <sumanah> I don't actually know what the policy is. di_codes or EWDurbin or dstufft would

[20:29:44] <ronny> oh well

[20:29:59] <ronny> anway, the next setuptools_scm release will come from gitlab workflows

[20:30:11] <ronny> and use artifacts and artifact pushing to do one singular release

[20:45:09] <sumanah> Yay https://discuss.python.org/t/announcement-pipenv-beta-release/4051/1 - techalchemy would it help you if I commented on GitHub with a link to that?

[20:45:24] <techalchemy> sumanah, definitely

[20:45:25] <techalchemy> i am slow

[20:45:46] <sumanah> techalchemy: it's ok :-)

[21:01:26] <sumanah> techalchemy: ok, posted to the release tracking issue, and to Twitter https://twitter.com/ThePyPA/status/1256326202672857089

[21:01:34] <techalchemy> thanks!

[21:59:18] <sumanah> techalchemy: I learned enough about the GitHub API that I could get the usernames of all 12 of the users who volunteered via emoji reaction to test on Windows, and I @-mentioned them in a comment on the release issue

[22:00:47] <sumanah> https://developer.github.com/v3/reactions/#list-reactions-for-an-issue-comment + https://developer.github.com/changes/2016-05-12-reactions-api-preview/

[22:02:47] <sumanah> off for the night. Catch you later

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