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#pypa-dev logs for Monday the 30th of November, 2020
[13:21:23] <dstufft> and still happy that we ended up doing GSoC :p one of the better long ter moutcomes :)
[14:23:39] <cooperlees> I think there was a typo in the pio new resolver release email saying that 20.1 will be released in Jan - won’t that be 21.0?
[14:28:56] <sumanah> I remembered this morning, looking at a checklist, that "oh right, the release announcement should include upcoming notable changes in 21.0" and then fatfingered it and did not notice.
[14:29:59] <sumanah> dstufft: I'd like to update the /topic here so we replace "New PyPI launched ..." with "new pip launched 2020-11-30 https://blog.python.org/2020/11/pip-20-3-release-new-resolver.html " -- could you do that here and in #pypa, since it's hard to figure out how to op someone?
[14:30:51] <sumanah> I was on a videocall with Pradyun as we shipped, publicized, etc. and there was this moment where I said "do you think you could close #988?" and he just sat and thought about it for a while and realized: yes.
[14:31:37] <dstufft> sumanah: I think it'll be easy to op pradyun, just dealing with burning trhough the holday backlog of things before I go dig up the docs on how chanserv works again
[14:33:26] <dstufft> I'm like, not actually a team lead, but sort of temporarily filing that role at work, and it's a lot of emails and meetings and documents and stuff that I'm not used to so I'm probably slower at it al lthen I should be, so it takes me a few :p
[14:39:48] <dstufft> sumanah: if you want to set topic, /msg chanserver topic #pypa whatever you want the topic to be
[14:39:54] <sumanah> I just tried to edit the topic and was told "you're not a channel operator", and ... ok
[14:42:02] <dstufft> so you typicaly interact with chanserv (can send it a /msg chanserv help for info), or you can /msg chanserv op #channlname to temporarily op yourself, and then /msg chanserv deop #channelname to drop privs)
[14:43:37] <sumanah> RIGHT - thank you dstufft and sorry to bother you. I was looking stuff up to try to figure this out and wasn't finding what I needed
[14:43:48] <sumanah> and, like you said, when you haven't done it in a while it drops out of one's head
[17:50:04] <cooperlees> pradyunsg: To help be know what to do faster can I ask a favor: What do we need to fix here for black https://github.com/psf/black/issues/1847
[17:51:28] <cooperlees> "pip finds that the version in the filename (20.8b1) conflicts with the version in the metadata inside the package - which it says is 0.0.0." - What metadata do we needs / are missing?
[19:08:05] <sumanah> Exactly since the moment of release `pip` fails to install all packages depending on `_ctypes` (e.g. uWSGI). Reproduced in 3.7 and 3.8, but works fine in 3.6." https://twitter.com/ngrischenko/status/1333476174790586369
[19:27:02] <dstufft> I'm going to have to memorize a new issue number to be the source of all pip's problems now
[19:27:56] <sumanah> if anyone wants to feel a little upset there's always Hacker News! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25253236
[19:28:19] <sangy> curious, is this issue, just so we can be ready to point to upstream if tickets arise on arch :)
[19:29:29] <sumanah> looking at https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+sort%3Acomments-desc ordering by # of comments....
[19:32:14] <sumanah> we still have 9 open issues that have 3-digit numbers https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+sort%3Acreated-asc
[19:32:31] <dstufft> sumanah I wonder if it makes sense to create a single issue for "my stuff takes something resembling infinity time"
[19:33:21] <sumanah> dstufft: maybe move https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/8664#issuecomment-735961391 to a new issue that is "takes infinity time"?
[19:47:17] <dstufft> I should probably dig into the resolver at some point so I have a better head state for how it works
[19:52:33] <dstufft> (I suspect there's a real chance that pip is just too complex for my monkey brain to handle now :p every time I tried to figure out how to resolver I got mad and did something else)
[19:57:27] <dstufft> https://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/k3vzjw/pip_203_released_with_the_new_dependency_resolver/ seems positive
[20:04:24] <sumanah> if someone with a Reddit account wants to go drop a link to https://wiki.python.org/psf/PackagingWG#Dependency_resolver_and_user_experience_improvements_for_pip into the thread about costs
[20:04:52] <sumanah> you can also say that there are definitely at least hundreds of volunteer hours in this, possibly thousands, in addition to the paid hours
[20:07:15] <sumanah> [but there was some onboarding travel among developers in January, so yes there was some travel cost]
[20:12:12] <sumanah> dstufft: thanks! if you don't mind, specifying that there are at least hundreds of volunteer hours *in this pip resolver & UX improvement work this year* would be nice (so people don't think you mean pip overall)
[20:14:55] <dstufft> > So when I see that something like this only cost $407K, I have to wonder how it was done for so cheap.
[20:15:08] <sumanah> IT IS a bargain and I am so grateful that Tzu-ping and Paul stepped up so much as volunteers even after their contracts ended
[20:16:04] <dstufft> I only sort of kept track of what was going on, so I lack a lot of the context around what was happening
[20:16:38] <sumanah> dstufft: well I figure you and your family have been trying to, like, not die. Which also takes some attention
[20:17:15] <dstufft> sumanah: it's interesting, we've mostly just not left the house, so in theory it shouldn't take much effort on the day to day
[20:17:41] <dstufft> otoh the crushing and all encompasing stress of the pandemic makes basic thought hard
[21:44:18] <offbyone> Unless you totally lack empathy, this pandemic has been hard on everyone, whether or not they're personally suffering.
[22:43:35] <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/pypa/packaging/compare/69855f324f58...5037e4cfdb5d
[23:57:34] <cooperlees> pradyunsg: Thanks - I thought it was basically what you said. I've been trying to automate our releases via GitHub actions - I might just do the PR now - But only ambv/EWDurbin I believe have access to release / add the secret.
[23:58:04] <cooperlees> Ideally I want something like https://github.com/pypa/bandersnatch/blob/master/.github/workflows/pypi_upload.yml
[23:59:57] <pradyunsg> Sorry, I'm catching up on what feels like a conversation I really wanted to be a part of. :)