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[01:31:58] <Alex_Gaynor> dstufft: FWIW I think the lack of compiler toolchains is a more compelling argument against C-ext requirements for pip than pypy support is, can always doa cffi binding for pypy

[01:33:41] <dstufft> Alex_Gaynor: well except pip isn't actually the direct user of ssl here, so you'd have to get a cffi binding for PyPy and get requests to use it, and also xmlrpc (although that's less of a big deal)

[01:33:53] <Alex_Gaynor> dstufft: oh, sure, no doubt

[01:34:06] <dstufft> so yea, there are ways arund that

[01:34:13] <dstufft> but it does complicate things

[01:34:25] <Alex_Gaynor> That's not about c-exts vs. pure python though, that's about 3rd partyness

[01:34:38] <dstufft> yea

[01:38:39] <dstufft> I kind of don't want to sound like I'm saying that this needs to happen becasue pip, but pretty much anything that doesn't come with Python itself is a non starter for pip unless it's pure python

[01:39:39] <dstufft> A lot more people are for it then I thought though

[01:39:47] <dstufft> I thought this was going to be an uphill battle

[01:39:50] <Alex_Gaynor> It needs to happen because shipping a poorly configured TLS client should be punishable as computer malpractice

[13:32:23] <Ivo> well we get some back

[13:32:37] <Keanu73> mhm..

[13:32:38] <Ivo> lol @ the kick message

[13:33:05] <jezdez> yeah

[13:33:07] <jezdez> totally my stupid irc client

[13:33:09] <jezdez> oh well :)

[13:33:22] <Ivo> I'm sure ppl will get over it

[13:33:33] <jezdez> yeah the rest of the idlers will come

[13:37:35] <Keanu73> !logs

[13:37:35] <pmxbot> http://chat-logs.dcpython.org/channel/pypa

[13:37:44] <Keanu73> cool bot

[13:37:49] <Keanu73> ;)

[14:31:29] <Ivo> !m jezdez

[14:31:29] <pmxbot> you're doing good work, jezdez!

[14:31:48] <Ivo> ^ best bot feature ever

[14:32:05] <jezdez> :)

[14:37:19] <Keanu73> :)

[14:37:34] <Keanu73> !m Keanu73

[14:37:34] <pmxbot> you're doing good work, Keanu73!

[14:37:37] <Keanu73> xD

[14:38:12] <jezdez> :D

[14:53:58] <Ivo> Keanu73: that's not how you use it!

[14:54:17] <Keanu73> lol it was just for fun

[14:54:29] <Ivo> alright, just this time then.

[15:09:58] <navap> Ivo: http://pastie.org/8960379 - AssertionError after fresh install

[15:10:37] <Ivo> navap: sorry, what was the command you issued?

[15:10:44] <navap> pip list

[15:11:46] <navap> I get a permission denied error when trying to run pip install virtualenvwrapper and tried pip list and got that error

[15:12:01] <Ivo> navap: OS?

[15:12:17] <navap> This is all from a fresh install of ubuntu 13.10 and only sudo apt-get install python-pip

[15:12:23] <navap> 13.10 server

[15:13:19] <Ivo> to install in system packages usually you'll need root permsions, ie sudo pip install virtualenvwrapper

[15:13:49] <Ivo> navap: what pip version is this? (pip -V)

[15:14:49] <navap> I deleted the vm. I can recreate it in a few minutes

[15:16:13] <navap> I'm assuming it was 1.4.1-2 as per https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+package/python-pip

[15:16:25] <Ivo> navap: ah ok, likely pip 1.4.1 then. I'd usually recommend getting the latest pip, http://www.pip-installer.org/en/latest/installing.html#install-or-upgrade-pip

[15:17:40] <navap> Okay I'll try that

[15:17:43] <Ivo> https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/1093

[15:18:24] <navap> I wanted to follow http://www.jeffknupp.com/blog/2013/12/18/starting-a-django-16-project-the-right-way/. Getting stuck on the first command was very disheartening...

[15:19:03] <navap> I came across that issue. I tried upgrading distribute and it didn't work

[15:20:23] <Ivo> navap: if you didn't know, distribute has been absorbed into setuptools so the latter is far preferable now

[15:21:21] <Ivo> ofc, it doesn't help that ubuntu 13.10 is still packaging an extremely old setuptools.. :/

[15:21:49] <navap> 1.5.4 has been installed using get-pip.py. Thanks a lot!

[15:21:59] <navap> So I should be installing virtualenvwrapper with sudo?

[15:22:01] <Ivo> navap: basically, to fix everything, do this -

[15:22:12] <Ivo> sudo pip install --upgrade pip setuptools

[15:22:18] <Ivo> sudo pip install virtualenv virtualenvwrapper

[15:23:52] <Ivo> navap: and after that, using virtulenv / virtualenvwrapper you shouldn't need any sudo's any more

[15:24:05] <navap> I now have a .distlib folder in my ~ that's owned by root. THat's expected?

[15:25:01] <tomprince> gah 'sudo pip install' :( :( :(

[15:25:10] <pmxbot> jaraco pushed 1 commit to setuptools (https://bitbucket.org/pypa/setuptools/) :

[15:25:10] <pmxbot> Move the transform operation into the generator expression.

[15:25:20] <Ivo> tomprince: only for pip itself and virtualenv...

[15:25:34] <Ivo> jaraco_: considered putting dates next to the setuptools release #s?

[15:26:11] <Ivo> navap: I think so, I have one

[15:26:52] <jaraco_> Ivo: There was a ticket about that. It adds extra work to the release process that I'd like to avoid, especially when source code reports the release dates (date of the tagging change).

[15:27:10] <jaraco_> I would very much like for a service to provide that information as a report, though.

[15:28:05] <Ivo> why the heck has ubuntu 13.10 still got setuptools 0.6 :/

[15:48:45] <Ivo> dstufft: you know where the ~/.distlib folder comes from?

[15:49:00] <dstufft> because distlib creates it if you import distlib

[15:49:05] <dstufft> or some shit

[15:49:08] <dstufft> I'm not a fan

[15:49:17] <Ivo> rrrrrrrright

[15:49:58] <Ivo> ya me either

[15:51:18] <Ivo> i wonder what its for exactly

[15:51:47] <Ivo> navap: did you get things working for yourself?

[15:52:06] <navap> Yes I think so. I'm now following along with that django tutorial

[15:52:09] <navap> Thanks again

[15:56:36] <dstufft> Ivo: It's for some sort of cache

[16:02:59] <pmxbot> jaraco pushed 1 commit to setuptools (https://bitbucket.org/pypa/setuptools/) :

[16:02:59] <pmxbot> Remove 'Distribute' artifact. Fixes #171

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#pypa logs for Sunday the 23rd of March, 2014