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[02:35:04] <npcomp> Are you guys really sending people here from #pip ?

[02:35:34] <npcomp> Like *we are no longer allowed in #pip* ?

[02:39:50] <dstufft> yes

[02:40:03] <dstufft> we're considating channels

[02:40:31] <dstufft> as well as making it saner, it doesn't make sense to send people wanting virtualenv help to #pip, or setuptools, or wheel, or any of the other pypa projects

[02:40:45] <dstufft> but there are users to all of those who have questions sometimes

[11:16:58] <ronny> re

[11:17:24] <ronny> again: anyone got an idea why pip install --downoad now asks for every file?

[11:17:30] <ronny> *download

[12:29:09] <aclark> !logs

[12:29:09] <pmxbot> http://chat-logs.dcpython.org/channel/pypa

[12:29:23] <aclark> \o/

[12:29:28] <aclark> !m pmxbot

[12:29:28] <pmxbot> you're doing good work, pmxbot!

[22:25:15] <nZac> Odd question, is the correct spelling PIP, pip, or Pip?

[22:31:39] <apollo13> I doubt it's PIP

[22:31:55] <apollo13> seems to be pip http://www.pip-installer.org/en/latest/

[22:33:54] <aclark> it is PIP (Pip Installs Packages), but who cares :-)

[22:34:51] <nZac> aclark: I have seen PIP, pip, Pip, PiP... maybe I should use pIp

[22:35:16] <aclark> nZac: hah

[22:35:28] <aclark> I use pip mostly

[22:35:45] <nZac> thanks!

[22:36:51] <dstufft> I use pip too

[22:49:52] <qwcode> it came awhile back on a pip docs refactor, it was decided at the time to be "pip"

[22:50:19] <aclark> and there was much w00ting

[22:56:14] <aconrad> howdy, I have a feature idea I'd like to share here before I go any further

[22:57:30] <aconrad> wouldn't it be cool if I could cherry-pick the global site packages that I'd want to include in my virtualenv? virtualenv --no-site-packages --include-site-packages=graph_tool,ipython

[22:58:17] <dstufft> aconrad: I think import-sig was working on something that would enable that actually

[22:58:20] <aconrad> this would basically setup .egg-link files that would point to the global site packages... would this work?

[22:58:40] <dstufft> the core of the problem right now, is that site-packages has all of the global packages in it, and thus you can't selecively install one of them afaik

[22:59:00] <aconrad> even with an egg-link?

[22:59:01] <dstufft> though maybe egg-link allows that, I don't remember offhand it's semantics :/

[22:59:38] <aconrad> because that's pretty much what does "pip install -e .", creates an .egg-link in your virtualenv site-packages that points to your source

[23:00:16] <aconrad> so if we did the same thing, but pointing to a library inside the global sites packages, maybe that would work...

[23:01:00] <qwcode> aconrad, the pth update (adding a path to the package parent dir) is what makes the package importable, not the actual egg-link file.

[23:01:21] <qwcode> aconrad, in the global site everything has the same parent dir (with pip installs)

[23:02:01] <qwcode> aconrad, "the pth update" == easy-install.pth

[23:02:53] <aconrad> qwcode: right

[23:03:56] <qwcode> aconrad, this idea of being able to control package by package, was one of the advantages of the egg format, that encapsulated the package in a directory

[23:04:52] <aconrad> right now I'm trying to deal with graph_tool, a library that doesn't contain a setup.py and takes hours to compile from source

[23:05:09] <aconrad> so right now I'm using the binary (.deb) available from their website

[23:05:41] <aconrad> and I realize that pip install graph_tool would take waaay too long to get in my virtualenv

[23:06:09] <aconrad> this is the response I got http://graph-tool.skewed.de/ticket/163

[23:06:12] <qwcode> aconrad, you could try to manually constuct a wheel from the deb for this one package

[23:07:29] <aconrad> yeah, a co-worker suggested using wheel

[23:07:42] <aconrad> another co-worker suggested using conda

[23:07:57] <aconrad> (but graph_tool is not on conda anyways)

[23:09:23] <dstufft> FWIW like 99% of Conda's benefit for python packages come from the fact they build some binary packages (which Wheel does anyways) but since they host the binary packages they can build them without the author buying into the system whereas Wheel/pip wants authors to upload them to PyPI preferably

[23:09:45] <dstufft> aconrad: you can do pip wheel graph_tool to build a wheel once and then install from it after that

[23:11:00] <aconrad> dstufft: so you are saying I could just build the wheel myself and submit it to conda without relying on the author to do it?

[23:11:17] <dstufft> conda doesn't use wheels

[23:11:20] <dstufft> they have their own format

[23:11:29] <dstufft> but you can build the Wheel yourself and just stick it on S3 or something

[23:11:34] <dstufft> and install it instead

[23:12:06] <aconrad> yeah, I just didn't want to have to maintain a personal binary

[23:12:21] <aconrad> I'd rather get people involved and make it useful for the community rather than my own needs

[23:12:30] <aconrad> but yeah, I see what you mean dstufft

[23:12:55] <aconrad> I just learned about conda a few days ago, haven't looked into it closely just yet

[23:14:26] <aconrad> I was also reading this earlier today: https://twitter.com/sontek/status/448159649594736640

[23:17:14] <dstufft> Sigh

[23:17:21] <dstufft> Conda hasn't solved everything fwiw :)

[23:17:34] <dstufft> Conda solved a very narrow set of problems

[23:18:28] <dstufft> If your problems fall within that set, then conda works very well and I recommend it :)

[23:18:33] <dstufft> if your problems don't, then I don't

[23:18:48] <dstufft> well I recommend it assuming they've fixed the problem where there's zero security on downloading packages

[23:19:03] <Alex_Gaynor> I don't they have.

[23:19:14] <dstufft> Nope they haven't https://github.com/conda/conda/issues/400 :(

[23:20:16] <dstufft> so nevermind, I don't recommend using conda unless you're OK with a MITM attacker being able to drop whatever files he wants on your computer

[23:20:50] <dstufft> (Also if you're not OK with this make sure you're using the latest version of pip without and --allow-unverified calls)

[23:22:33] <qwcode> aconrad, dstufft graph-tool src package contains no setup.py can't "pip wheel" http://graph-tool.skewed.de/ticket/163

[23:23:11] <aconrad> qwcode: yeah, that's the ticket I opened today

[23:23:37] <qwcode> aconrad, I know, just dstufft said for you to use "pip wheel". that won't work

[23:23:49] <aconrad> graph-tool is still compiling on my computer, and I started it ~4 hours ago or so

[23:24:08] <qwcode> aconrad, that's why I said to try to "manually" create a wheel

[23:24:14] <aconrad> yup