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[01:08:15] <AGreyCrane> Suggestions for getting pip installed offline? I know how to install packages with pip offline once installed, but I'm not sure how to get pip installed itself.

[01:08:58] <asmeurer> get pip tarball and setup.py install?

[01:11:41] <AGreyCrane> Any suggestions for the easiest way to grab the tgz? I just see the option to download as zip on the git repo. (sorry if I am missing something obvious)

[01:12:38] <AGreyCrane> Never mind, found it

[01:12:39] <AGreyCrane> :)

[01:42:02] <barry> dstufft: yeah, had to be right? :)

[01:42:44] <dstufft> barry: basically I think to fix it, all you need to do is search for anywhere debian's patches gate something on sys.real_prefix or VIRTUAL_ENV and add a check for sys.base_prefix != sys.prefix

[01:43:07] <dstufft> this is likely a problem on 3.3 too btw

[01:43:17] <barry> dstufft: in stdlib distutils, right?

[01:43:20] <dstufft> but I don't think anyone uses 3.3 venv because no installer

[01:43:22] <dstufft> ya

[01:43:29] <dstufft> well

[01:43:35] <dstufft> there was a place or two also

[01:43:37] <dstufft> sysconfig

[01:43:39] <dstufft> maybe

[01:43:41] <barry> well, we removed 3.3 from 14.04 so i guess we still care in debian, but not in ubuntu :)

[01:43:48] <barry> right. i remember that

[01:44:20] <dstufft> I only debugged it enough to figure out why and briefly looked through the patches to see

[01:44:32] <dstufft> I saw 2 or three which had sys.real_prefix or VIRTUAL_ENV conditionals

[01:44:51] <barry> dstufft: yep. no worries, i'll poke at it tomorrow. sorry you won't be at pycon. thanks for the help!

[01:45:07] <dstufft> barry: no problem :) thanks for fixing ensurepip!

[01:45:30] <barry> sure thing!

[01:46:12] <dstufft> barry: I wonder what the policy will be for updating pip inside ensurepip? Will it be stuck on the same sort of policy as python-pip where 1.5.X is ok but 1.6 isn't, or do you think folks will let me submit patches to keep it up to date?

[01:46:51] <dstufft> (obviously you're not the spokesperson for everyone :) I just dunno what people are generally willing to do)

[01:47:40] <dstufft> (Actually I don't even know what they do wih CPthon, will 14.03 always use 3.4.0, or will it update to 3.4.1?)

[01:47:48] <barry> dstufft: it's a good question. my own feeling is that pyvenv should follow upstream. for python-pip we'll follow normal package rules, i.e. if we really wanted to update python-pip after 14.04 is out, then we need to sru it and justify the new version (as opposed to cherrypicking any bug fixes)

[01:48:24] <barry> dstufft: since 14.04 is an LTS, we'll have 14.04.1, 14.04.2, etc for the lifecycle of the release

[01:48:38] <barry> and in that case, what we've done before is pull in python 3.4.1, 3.4.2, etc.

[01:48:44] <barry> i suspect we'll do the same here

[01:49:05] <barry> so if 3.4.1 has a new pip, then we'll get that for free, which seems fine to me

[01:49:30] <barry> and folks can use the standalone virtualenv tool if they don't like that, since it will stick with the packaged versions

[01:49:50] <barry> but as you say, those are just *my* opinions, so we'll see :)

[01:51:36] <dstufft> barry: ok cool

[01:52:19] <dstufft> barry: I've really never paid much attention to the linux packaging policies except to compile a database in my head of what versions are where, what patches are where, and when the combinations of those things explode :)

[01:52:23] <dstufft> so i'm learning stuff

[01:53:21] <barry> yeah, it's crazy. it took me a long time to internalize ubuntu *and* debian and the differences between them. not sure i totally have it but at least i don't get yelled at as much now :)

[01:55:12] <dstufft> I haven't gotten yelled at much so far into my forray

[01:55:30] <dstufft> after reading the original PEP453 thread on debian-python I was pretty sure I was going to be

[01:56:00] <barry> no way dude. no one is gonna risk you ditching this stuff :)

[01:58:31] <dstufft> ha :)

[02:01:24] <barry> anyway, i'm off for the night. i'll let you know what i find tomorrow

[02:03:10] <dstufft> see ya!