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[10:45:08] <gisli> hey guys, I'm getting an error while trying to install Beaver with pip, any ideas? Traceback: http://pastie.org/private/ecmo6fuzy0yvxbegmjg

[11:01:17] <straycat> Hi, is the official repo for setuptools the one in http://svn.python.org/projects/sandbox/ or the one in https://bitbucket.org/pypa/setuptools/ ?

[11:15:03] <mgedmin> gisli, I suspect it's a bug in pbr

[11:16:26] <mgedmin> straycat, https://pypi.python.org/pypi/setuptools#downloads points to bitbucket

[11:19:13] <straycat> From that link: "In addition to the PyPI downloads, the development version of setuptools is available from the Bitbucket repo, and in-development versions of the 0.6 branch are available as well."

[11:19:47] <mgedmin> yes

[11:20:13] <straycat> I don't really understand the difference between the "development" and "in-development" versions

[11:20:20] <straycat> I know this is stupid.

[11:20:59] <mgedmin> I think it means the same; only 0.6 is an ancient branch

[11:21:17] <straycat> but still active?

[11:21:45] <mgedmin> maintained for those who need it, assuming there are any

[11:22:16] <mgedmin> there was a long period of dormancy with setuptools at 0.6csomething where upstream was afraid to make new releases because things might break

[11:22:26] <mgedmin> then new maintainers showed up and setuptools development unfroze

[11:22:32] <mgedmin> (some things broke and got fixed)

[11:24:28] <straycat> Right

[13:34:39] <carlio> how long does it usually take for the pypi mirrors/caches/whatever to catch up?

[13:34:45] <carlio> i can see my package on pypi but not get it via pip

[13:36:12] <mgedmin> the CDN should be near-instant

[13:36:57] <mgedmin> pypi mirrors are ... not very reliable: http://www.pypi-mirrors.org/

[13:37:30] <mgedmin> pip uses the CDN by default and should see your package

[13:39:37] <carlio> hmm

[13:40:29] <mgedmin> maybe pip is rejecting your package because it has a pre-release version number or something?

[13:40:31] <carlio> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/prospector latest is 0.7.1

[13:40:36] <carlio> but https://pypi.python.org/simple/prospector/ latest is 0.7

[13:40:54] <mgedmin> 0.7.1 has no files uploaded

[13:41:11] <carlio> oh

[13:41:12] <carlio> er

[13:41:21] <mgedmin> did you forget to run twine upload?

[13:42:27] <carlio> i ran the same thing i always do, i guess it must have failed and i didn't notice!

[13:42:28] <carlio> it worked now

[13:42:51] <carlio> thanks :)

[13:57:42] <mattupstate> curious…what was the motivation to distribute a CA bundle with pip?

[14:03:39] <apollo13> probably easier to load over multiple systems

[14:03:51] <apollo13> also you can always specify your own

[14:06:04] <mattupstate> i suppose…i just like my system bundle…especially if i add my own internal CA to it

[14:07:14] <mattupstate> and i like defaults ;)

[14:07:45] <mgedmin> https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/1680 and https://github.com/pypa/pip/pull/1866

[14:07:48] <mgedmin> seem relevant

[14:09:14] <mattupstate> i didn't find those issues when i was looking last night…although it was pretty late and i was tired

[14:12:08] <mattupstate> but thats cool…but not released yet?

[14:12:54] <mattupstate> nope…doh!

[14:12:59] <mattupstate> glad to see it though

[15:13:11] <techtonik> so, what is the status of https://github.com/pypa/virtualenv/milestones?state=open ?

[15:13:22] <techtonik> should the new version be 12.0 ?

[15:18:21] <apollo13> ?

[15:18:28] <apollo13> why 12.0

[15:19:44] <doismellburning> apollo13: https://github.com/pypa/virtualenv/blob/develop/virtualenv.py#L5 ?

[15:21:13] <apollo13> interesting

[15:59:28] <delanne> hi

[15:59:45] <delanne> I try to create my setup.py with setuptools, and got this error:

[16:00:14] <delanne> setup command: 'install_requires' must be a string or list of strings containing valid project/version requirement specifiers

[16:00:29] <delanne> install_requires is a list like:

[16:00:36] <apollo13> don't paste the list here!

[16:00:43] <delanne> ['/tmp/pip-dcoh1v-build/extensions/mydep1/', 'distribute>=0.6.14', 'docutils==0.10']

[16:00:45] <doismellburning> at a guess, you have a github url in there? also, what apollo13 said

[16:00:46] <delanne> oups, sorry

[16:00:57] <apollo13> delanne: the first one

[16:01:00] <apollo13> remove that

[16:01:11] <delanne> yes, the first one cause trouble

[16:01:13] <delanne> but I need it

[16:01:22] <apollo13> not gonna work

[16:01:26] <apollo13> as simple as that :)

[16:01:35] <delanne> any workaround ?

[16:01:43] <apollo13> properly package it and put it on pypi or whatever

[16:02:20] <delanne> ok thanks

[16:39:00] <DanielHolth> delanne you can put your private package's sdist or wheel in a directory, and use the PIP_FIND_LINKS environment variable to have pip look for it

[22:16:07] <pf_moore> dstufft: re python-dev thread about building Python extensions on Windows, as a non-Windows user, how much more do you think you need than what I posted?

[22:16:50] <dstufft> pf_moore: telling me how to figure out the appropiate versions of things and links and stuff would be cool too

[22:17:15] <dstufft> the thing we're competing with is ``sudo apt-get build-essential`` :/

[22:19:25] <pf_moore> Well, you're never going to get that on Windows. "Get VS 2010 Express from http://www.example.com/whatever and run the installer" is the level I'm aiming at.

[22:21:46] <pf_moore> The Visual Studio installers don't support unattended installs (or at least, if they do it's more complicated than just clicking "Next" through the GUI installer)

[22:22:15] <pf_moore> So expecting people to be capable of doing that seems reasonable.

[22:23:28] <pf_moore> Of course, it might be fun to talk down to Linux users as if they are less intelligent than the average Windows user, but I'd probably better not ;-)

[22:58:41] <dstufft> pf_moore: sorry had to help my daughter

[22:59:06] <dstufft> pf_moore: yea I don't mean to say that it's going to be that easy, and I don't think that "ge the installer from X place and install it" is dificult in general

[22:59:50] <dstufft> mostly I have no idea what versions of what need to be installed, and I know there's an Express and a not express and which one I want, I think i've seen some people saying that if you pick the express option it can only build things in certain ways?

[23:01:14] <dstufft> altough oneget looks cool

[23:01:19] <dstufft> a package manager manager for windows!

[23:02:49] <pf_moore> AFAICT, OneGet is only in PowerShell 5, which needs Windows 8+ Wish I still had my MSDN subscription...

[23:04:42] <pf_moore> But as for instructions, I'm going for "if you want to do X, get Y"

[23:05:50] <pf_moore> It's easier that way, because you're right, "if you have Y, you can do X" gets nasty (Express can't do 64-bit, unless it's Express 2014, blah blah blah).

[23:06:18] <pf_moore> There's not actually that many combinations to worry about in practice, tough.

[23:15:36] <dstufft> pf_moore: aren't you CPython core?

[23:16:57] <pf_moore> Technically no, just a hanger on. I did have a core dev MSDN, but it expired and nobody seemed to be doing the renewal exercise.

[23:17:29] <dstufft> pf_moore: oh, well I'm sure you can get one again

[23:17:37] <dstufft> I forget who the contact is

[23:17:59] <pf_moore> I didn't push it, because honestly you don't need paid MSVC to do anything with Python these days :-) But yeah, I'm sure I could ask Steve Dower if I wanted one. May do so sometime.

[23:18:58] <pf_moore> (The original contact wasn't Steve, IIRC it was Brian Curtin)

[23:19:01] <dstufft> pf_moore: yea, I mean pip has this psuedo core thing now, so I think it makes sense :D

[23:19:11] <dstufft> we're kinda core but kinda not

[23:19:38] <dstufft> I'm techincally core I guess, but I generally don't do anything but updated pip inside ensurepip :D

[23:19:47] <pf_moore> Might do it, just to get my hands on VS 2014, so I can try it out.

[23:20:10] <dstufft> also wrt to your latest email, I think not going into random dependencies is fine (like libyaml)

[23:20:15] <pf_moore> (And play with Windows 8.1 and 10 - I hear they are distinctly better than 8.0...)

[23:20:42] <pf_moore> Yeah, dependencies *are* a genuine pain, but not something for a beginners article.

[23:21:00] <dstufft> getting linux developers to care at all about distribiuting wheels on Windows would be a ton easier if there's a "here's the shit you need to do to set up a basic environment" guide

[23:21:55] <pf_moore> One day I might get round to working out a good way of configuring stuff so people can dump dependencies in one location, like /usr/local/lib. I think it's just getting env vars right, but the registry gets involved too.

[23:22:04] <pf_moore> So many distractions, so little time :-)

[23:24:11] <dstufft> pf_moore: I know that feeling

[23:25:35] <pf_moore> Re getting Linux developers to care, if it wasn't for OS license issues, providing a VirtualBox template that consisted of Windows with all the dev tools preinstalled would be a great option

[23:26:04] <pf_moore> How do companies like Rackspace handle Windows license issues?

[23:26:29] <dstufft> pf_moore: it's baked into the cost of the VM isntance

[23:26:44] <dstufft> e.g. the same size VM costs more if you get Windows than if you get a free Linux

[23:26:52] <dstufft> it also costs more if you install RHEL for instance

[23:27:07] <dstufft> pf_moore: we could make VM images

[23:27:17] <dstufft> I know in EC2 you can make an image that anyone can run

[23:27:24] <dstufft> I think we can do the same in Rackspace, I'm not sure tho

[23:28:34] <pf_moore> Yeah, I was thinking free tier stuff, but you tend not to get Windows free VMs from anyone (presumably for that reason)

[23:42:56] <dstufft> pf_moore: if it's for OSS Rackspace does grants of 2k/month for free

[23:43:04] <dstufft> so you can get it, but it requires emailing and asking

[23:43:30] <dstufft> also for non OSS rackpsace does developer grants for like 50/month or something

[23:43:38] <dstufft> but I think that only lasts for a year

[23:50:12] <pf_moore> dstufft: A template that J. Random Hacker could copy and use would be nice. If EC2 does that, maybe it's about time I set up an account and tried the year's free tier.

[23:50:52] <dstufft> pf_moore: I don't know the legality of making an AMI that contains the VS Express or the SDK or whatever

[23:50:59] <dstufft> but Amazon will handle the windows license at least

[23:51:06] <dstufft> an AMI is just an amazon machine image

[23:51:35] <dstufft> you make one, you get an ID, and you can hand that ID out to people and when they create a machine they can pass that ID into the UI to bootstrap your image

[23:54:22] <dstufft> OSs are funny

[23:54:35] <dstufft> I find Linux/OSX/etc super easy

[23:54:42] <dstufft> but Windows makes my head hurt

[23:55:01] <dstufft> I'm sure you could drop a Windows dev on any of my linux boxes and they'd be cursing as much as I am at windows

[23:55:49] <dstufft> pf_moore: if nathan doesn't want to do it (or if you want more eyes) i'm happy to review docs too and try to install something that requires compiling on Windows

[23:55:57] <dstufft> I've never successfully created a windows build environment

[23:59:08] <pf_moore> dstufft: As VS Express and the SDKs are free, I assume it'd be OK, but I might run it by Steve Dower before publicising it.

[23:59:53] <dstufft> pf_moore: probably smart

[23:59:57] <dstufft> IK'm sujre he'd be happy to help

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#pypa logs for Wednesday the 29th of October, 2014