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[11:41:23] <[Tritium]> It would be nice to be able to alias packages. like locally tell pip that 'when a setup says distribute, its setuptools'

[11:42:01] <[Tritium]> PIL to Pillow, etc

[18:58:23] <Okitain> Hello people. I'm having problems installing matplotlib from a local pip2pi repo.

[19:00:21] <Okitain> The problem is that, while pip installs numpy as a dependency, it doesn't build numpy before it's too late and matplotlib has already panicked

[19:02:04] <nedbat> Okitain: i think it will work if you do it in two steps, two invocations of pip

[19:08:04] <dstufft> Okitain: yea, like nedbat said, do numpy first. The problem is matplotlib doesn't properly specify it's build dependencies

[19:08:44] <Okitain> nedbat: dstufft: works, but it's undesirable and my boss won't stop riding me until I file bugreport on...something.

[19:09:19] <Okitain> dstufft: so pip added build-time dependencies?

[19:09:34] <nedbat> Okitain: feel free to write a bug report against matplotlib, though they probably have one already.

[19:09:36] <dstufft> Okitain: well, not exactly, but setuptools has it

[19:09:40] <dstufft> via setup_requires

[19:19:37] <Okitain> dstufft: by the way, have pip and easy_install still not merged?

[19:20:20] <dstufft> Okitain: merge? No. I doubt that'll ever happen. The end goal is to just deprecate and remove easy_install

[19:21:23] <Okitain> dstufft: what i meant was, is pip still not a part of setuptools the way easy_install is?

[19:21:54] <dstufft> Nope, and that won't happen either :) long term setuptools will no longer be "special", it'll just be yet another build tool

[19:28:56] <Okitain> dstufft: ah. Ideally, I would like to see the thing mostly be integrated into Python proper and finish off Distutils

[19:29:29] <dstufft> Okitain: well Python 2.7.9+ and 3.4+ more or less ship with pip

[19:31:38] <Okitain> dstufft: i meant setuptools being integrated. AFAIK pip just stopped requiring it.

[19:31:52] <dstufft> setuptools is unlikely to ever get added to the stdlib

[19:33:12] <Okitain> why though? It's not like distutils is getting younger.

[19:33:45] <Wooble> the stdlib is where modules go to die.

[19:41:29] <dstufft> Okitain: because the build system is a lowest common denominter. Right now the "typical" supported pythons are 2.6, 2.7, and 3.2+ or 3.3+ or so. so you'd only be able to rely on stuff in 2.6, So you'd only be able to use setuptools as it was in the state of 2008 for instance.

[19:41:58] <dstufft> by not adding it to the stdlib, we're free to continue to improve it at a rapid pace, and people can actually take advantage of those improvements

[19:42:31] <dstufft> and realistically, you odn't need the build tool to be part of the stdlib. As long as you have pip, pip can deal with getting the build tool installed

[19:42:46] <dstufft> which is why 2.7.9+ and 3.4+ bootstrap a pip installation for you by default

[20:01:44] <Wooble> also, you're free to make dubious decisions about the API and people will say "that's weird" instead of getting into a weeklong flamefest on python-dev.