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[07:11:25] <hynek> dstufft: i think i got it working, thanks :)

[07:35:22] <traverseda_lapto> Has anyone given any though (where I can read about it) to gobo-linux style packages? That is, being able to install more then one version of a package in pip?

[14:58:32] <ngoldbaum> is it possible to create a virtualenv that contains an old version of setuptools? I want to test a bit of code that prints an error message when people try to install my package with a too-old setuptools installed.

[15:08:33] <nedbat> ngoldbaum: i imagine if you use an old version of virtualenv you could

[15:09:27] <dstufft> ngoldbaum: virtualenv f && f/bin/pip install setuptools==oldversion ?

[15:10:54] <ngoldbaum> so, background, we're using a feature of setuptools that's only included in setuptools>=18.0 - is the right thing to do here to include setuptools in install_requires or setup_requires, or is that a chicken-egg problem?

[15:11:23] <dstufft> well

[15:11:42] <dstufft> are you using it in your setup.py, or as a runtime dependnecy of your project?

[15:11:57] <ngoldbaum> in the setup.py

[15:12:14] <ngoldbaum> (specifically support for building cython extensions)

[15:12:18] <dstufft> currently the best you can do is raise an error

[15:12:37] <ngoldbaum> ok, fair enough

[15:14:32] <ngoldbaum> thanks for the advice :)

[15:15:31] <dstufft> no problem

[15:31:17] <ionelmc> ngoldbaum: which feature?

[15:31:59] <ngoldbaum> ionelmc: support for building cython extensions without having cython installed initially

[15:33:20] <ionelmc> ngoldbaum: why do you need that? don't you prebuild the c files?

[15:33:36] <ngoldbaum> ionelmc: a lot of our users install from the development repo

[15:33:57] <ionelmc> ngoldbaum: and they change the pyx files?

[15:34:19] <ionelmc> those aren't "users" ;-)

[15:34:23] <ngoldbaum> nope, but we don't want to include the autogenerated C files in anything but source distributions

[15:34:38] <ionelmc> i see

[15:34:40] <ionelmc> why not?

[15:35:24] <ngoldbaum> churn, makes it harder to review cython contributions, confusing for new people, this always worked until recently when we started depending on a relatively recent cython version

[15:35:33] <ionelmc> i'm doing that btw, diffing the C files has proven very useful in many situations

[15:35:35] <ngoldbaum> after the next release this will be less painful

[15:36:27] <ionelmc> you can only be sure you have the right cython code after you seen the generated C

[15:36:40] <ionelmc> i thikn seeing that would be most useful in code reviews

[15:37:47] <ngoldbaum> agree to disagree i guess? I've never been in a situtation where i wanted to see the autogenerated C unless I was debugging the cython

[15:38:04] <ngoldbaum> and then only small subsections

[15:38:26] <ngoldbaum> we're not using cython to interface with the python C API, just as a way to create C extensions with a minimum of pain

[15:38:34] <ionelmc> dunno, i'm no cython expert, it's very hard for me to gauge the correctness/perf of cython code by merely looking at it

[15:38:38] <ngoldbaum> anyway, here's my solution for this issue:

[15:38:39] <ngoldbaum> https://bitbucket.org/yt_analysis/yt/pull-requests/2001/fail-yt-installation-early-when-setuptools

[15:38:42] <ionelmc> that's why i like to have/see the C code

[15:40:20] <ionelmc> ngoldbaum: and yeah, StrictVersion is broken

[15:40:32] <ionelmc> gonna misbehave on rc/beta versions

[15:41:25] <ionelmc> i don't wanna be mean but i think you're making things unnecessarily complicated

[15:41:46] <ngoldbaum> what's the best way to compare versions?

[15:41:54] <ngoldbaum> if not StrictVersion?

[15:42:13] <ionelmc> avoiding it completely, haha

[15:42:20] <ionelmc> it's a sad state of affairs

[15:42:24] <ngoldbaum> ionelmc: right now if setuptools is too old, people get an obscure error message

[15:42:38] <ngoldbaum> i'd like to avoid that if possible

[15:42:59] <ionelmc> it goes back to my opinion that you don't actually need newer setuptools

[15:43:26] <ngoldbaum> ionelmc: ok, but including the autogenerated C in the repo is a non-starter

[15:43:29] <ngoldbaum> at least for our project

[15:43:52] <ionelmc> would it generate something like 500kb of C code?

[15:43:58] <ionelmc> i'd understand that

[15:45:40] <ionelmc> btw, if merging is the issue, you can have per-file merge strategies

[15:45:54] <ionelmc> so those C files don't cause merge trouble

[15:46:44] <ngoldbaum> yeah, it's something like several megabytes of C files

[15:47:36] <ionelmc> ouch

[15:53:54] <ionelmc> don't setuptools have something better for comparing versions?

[15:54:12] <ngoldbaum> i have no idea - that's why i just asked in here :)

[15:56:28] <ngoldbaum> i guess pkg_resources.parse_version()

[16:15:17] <xofer> hi, i'm wondering how to set multiple extra-index-urls via an evironment variable (PIP_EXTRA_INDEX_URL). Anyone know how to do this?

[19:21:54] <buck1> https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/3511

[19:38:59] <njs> ngoldbaum: if all you need to do is compare setuptools versions to see if they're at least 18.0, then 18 <= int(version.split(".")[0]) will work well enough :-)

[19:41:10] <ngoldbaum> njs: LooseVersion seems to work ok, but in any case I ended up not going with that solution since it breaks other scenarios

[19:53:43] <b10n1k> is anyone familiar with SSLError: [Errno 1] _ssl.c:510: error:14077419:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:tlsv1 alert access denied?

[20:23:28] <ngoldbaum> b10n1k: just a guess, but i bet your python is older than 2.7.9

[20:37:16] <b10n1k> thats right ngoldbaum and I have tried everything I found online.

[20:53:47] <ngoldbaum> b10n1k: you should update your python, versions older than 2.7.9 have busted SSL