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[00:37:40] <tos9> I think I've asked this before so I'm prepared for sadness already, but no one has yet published a thing that simply wraps and gives a sane API to extending build_py and build_ext right?

[00:39:33] <tos9> What I'm looking for say is something that gives an API that say looks like `betterBuild.also_build(foo)` which simply takes a callable that it'll make sure to call during build_py (and whatever other appropriate times), and then collect any files calling that says to include in the dist

[10:45:29] <superguest> https://virtualenv.pypa.io/en/latest/

[10:45:51] <superguest> "Note though, that the venv module does not offer all features of this library (e.g. cannot create bootstrap scripts, cannot create virtual environments for other python versions than the host python, not relocatable, etc.). "

[10:46:28] <superguest> Can someone very briefly explain what kinda bootstrap scripts we're talking about here?

[14:26:46] <smth> What would be a good medium to resolve package ownership issues? There are 3 packages that we are supposed to own, but because of not historically registering on those names first, someone else owns them.

[14:26:59] <sumanah> heads-up di_codes ^

[14:28:35] <Ivo> smth, are the packages abandoned for a year?

[14:29:25] <smth> the packages are active. the person added us as collaborators on said packages, and then went on radio silence. So we are uploading to them, but we cannot do basic things such as adding more collaborators, deleting botched uploads, etc.

[14:30:07] <Ivo> i think this is the most relevant pep

[14:30:08] <Ivo> https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0541/

[14:30:18] <Ivo> how long have they been away?

[14:32:18] <smth> Last we got a response was April 2018. Since then we've made multiple attempts at contacting them over many mediums.

[14:32:38] <smth> thanks for the link to the PEP, I'll read it and see what the next steps are.

[14:33:19] <Ivo> I think probably putting a well-reasoned argument on the pypa-dev or distutils-dig mailing list is likely the best step

[14:35:31] <Ivo> dstufft, you think if one or the other ML is best for package ownership issue? ^

[14:36:40] <smth> I've emailed documentation and argument to dstufft a few months ago, and sent him a reminder a couple of weeks ago, so I thought personal / email requests are not entertained.

[14:37:02] <Ivo> well ML is less personal

[14:37:14] <smth> I'll post in #pypa-dev with a shorter message, and will see how it goes. thanks Ivo.

[14:37:42] <Ivo> might be helpful to wait till apirl 2019

[14:39:07] <smth> sounds good. waiting till april 2019 isn't too bad. The person has no history of being adversarial, they just haven't responded. We're still nervous about security, but we're working with what we have.

[14:39:26] <ngoldbaum> smth: haveyou opened an issue against warehouse?

[14:40:06] <Ivo> is warehouse issue tracker for administrative issues as well?

[14:40:12] <smth> I haven't, I thought it's a bit sensitive, the packages in question have a lot of downloads, and I didn't want to bring attention to the issue.

[14:40:33] <ngoldbaum> smth: e.g. https://github.com/pypa/warehouse/issues/5346

[14:40:46] <ngoldbaum> smth: well that's the process...

[14:41:30] <smth> okay, will open an issue then.

[14:41:43] <Ivo> seems so then

[15:56:01] <smth> I really appreciate the pointers. Thanks a lot ngoldbaum and Ivo.

[16:22:13] <smth> created: https://github.com/pypa/warehouse/issues/5455

[16:22:23] <smth> the packages in question are torch, pytorch and torchvision

[16:25:37] <dstufft> my email is perennially a mess and I suck hard at following up on issues sent to me through it, sorry :(

[16:27:43] <smth> no worries dstufft, your work on warehouse is invaluable.

[16:31:27] <dstufft> smth: my brain might be confusing unrelated things, but did PyTorch come out of Facebook, and if so did they get a TM on the name?

[16:32:46] <dstufft> (there might be a different machine learning thing that came out of Facebook that I'm getting confused with)

[16:38:14] <ngoldbaum> no, it's that

[16:44:06] <ngoldbaum> smth works at facebook too

[16:53:08] <toad_polo> Looks like pytorch.org recommends `pip install torch torchvision`

[16:53:22] <toad_polo> Are you saying that the official PyTorch people don't control that package?

[16:53:28] <toad_polo> That's pretty wild.

[16:54:57] <toad_polo> Ah, just read the issue. Interesting but less crazy than I thought :P

[16:55:05] <ngoldbaum> it's not clear to me who owns the pytorch trademark, although it's probably facebook

[16:56:31] <toad_polo> Whether or not they do, is there anyone with a similar claim with anywhere near as deep a war chest? :P

[16:59:06] <toad_polo> In any case, I doubt it'll come down to a trademark dispute, right? Seems like the original owner has generally good intentions and doesn't dispute that FB should own the repo.

[16:59:20] <toad_polo> I'm wondering if the "face to face" meeting was just to avoid getting phished or something.

[17:03:06] <smth> we haven't filed an official trademark, but we do own the repo, the github org, the website, copyrights etc.

[17:03:17] <smth> (sorry was afk)

[17:05:33] <smth> since day 1, pytorch had maintainers who are non-FB, and the author list of the paper reflects that as well, but majority of dev time, funding etc. is via FB.

[17:22:31] <dstufft> A trademark isn't required, it's just the most cut and dry way to deal with it, if the law saws so and so owns some mark, we don't really have an option but to comply (not that we'd want to do anything else)

[17:23:17] <dstufft> I don't have time to dig into it much atm, but someone will get to it and we'll reach out to the person who owns it now to try to resolve it

[17:24:50] <smth> thanks a lot dstufft . I'll follow the github issue for updates, and thanks a lot for the time of everyone here.

[18:13:31] <bn_work> hi, Ubuntu 14.04 LTS + Python 2.7.6 + pip 1.5.4 (installed via OS apt `python-setuptools` package v3.3-1 ), I am attempting to install pip package `mycli` (1.19.0) but it seems it has a dependency on setuptools 18.5 (?!). Is there any way to install an older version so I don't have to upgrade the entire OS? https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/amsbwKFq/

[18:16:58] <bn_work> note, trying to manually upgrade `setuptools` via pip results in this error (which I've heard shouldn't be overrode with `sudo`?): https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/9IAO07zd/

[20:25:26] <tdsmith> bn_work: consider working in a virtualenv